For those who don’t already know and don’t read articles [Jeremy Bentham’s panopticon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon) was intended as a revolutionary new prison.
BobMonkhaus on
Reminder we have this government and yet the fascists are the other party.
AllThatIHaveDone on
> When I was in justice, my ultimate vision for that part of the criminal justice system was to achieve, by means of AI and technology, what Jeremy Bentham tried to do with his Panopticon. **That is that the eyes of the state can be on you at all times.**
Genuinely chilling words. I wonder if that extends to MPs as well.
FoxtrotThem on
It’s the tyranny of it all.
We’ve got absolute loons in power.
wkavinsky on
Uniparties wet dream, surveillance everywhere.
Blair wanted it, Cameron wanted it, Johnson wanted it, Starmer wants it.
Privacy is dead, 1984 was a prediction, and it’ll all be sold to highest bidder to run.
Plus-Literature-7221 on
> police forces are looking at monitoring 1000 men they believe pose the highest risk to women to predict whether they will commit crimes.
Will inevitably be expanded to everyone.
With the social media ban and digital IDs, people will bw rrested for pre-crimes just because of what they post or watch online.
MultiMidden on
I suspect those who are most frightened by this will be those who feel this could be used to force them to live according to their beliefs.
Rightwinger with a foreign spouse but spends time posting about how immigrants should be deported.
Left wing trust-fund baby who talks about how the unearned income of the rich should be taxed more.
Also very bad for the redditors who see everything in black or white, no nuanced shades of grey allowed.
That said I’d be terrified of what a Reform government would do with this sort of system, so I have deep reservations about this.
Cynical_Classicist on
Yeh… I’m not happy with this. Way too much Palantir shit going on now.
JaMs_buzz on
“This doesn’t mean watching people who are non-criminals – but she feels like, if you commit a crime, you sacrifice the right to the kind of liberty the rest of us enjoy.”
But it does mean watching people who are non criminals. Also does this mean you make a stupid mistake when you’re younger, and that’s it, the state has the right to watch your every move forever?
Honestly this issue of state surveillance should be the thing that unites the left and right because it has the potential to affect all of us
Confident-Ant-3763 on
Guys at the next election you know what to do. I don’t care if you vote reform or green it doesn’t matter you know what you need to do
plawwell on
You have more freedom in Communist China or the DPRK.
No-Scholar4854 on
I will accept this idea when Mahmood agrees to:
1. Install cameras in every room of her house, office and car
2. Hook those cameras up to an AI
3. Making that AI publicly accessible so we can ask whatever questions we like about her day.
She’s got nothing to hide right? So she should be fine with the AI publishing a summary of her activities.
InformationNew66 on
This is now at the “they are not even trying to hide it anymore” state.
Shocking.
what_a_r on
But there will be a part of society exempt from this. They will be the ones attacking you, while you as much approach their towns dwelling and off you go to the cell, or pay a hefty contribution to their house of evil.
Cheen_Machine on
Is there a mandate that all politicians need to be completely stupid now? I swear they used to suggest things that might improve the country, or if you weren’t in power you might suggest things that people would really like to entice you to vote for them. I’m waiting for someone to step up and be a real political party and sound reasonable enough that people will stop entertaining the idea of voting for populists or racists, but instead they’ve stopped acting out the thick of it and moved on to fucking dystopian sci-fi films.
Cyrus_W_MacDougall on
Shabana read a couple pages of Foucault and completely misunderstood the point
Glittering_Habit_161 on
So the government knows who wants to act for the rest of their life?
neo101b on
Its inevitable, the better the tech the better surveillance.
We might as well get use to it, it has been in sci-fi for decades.
1984 is sci-fi history.
I guess the positive to this, is they have stopped lots of terrorist attacks, by all kinds of different people.
Many we may never know about.
AlephNaN on
Will MPs be surveilled too? Nothing to hide, nothing to fear right?
WorldGamer on
>It is not clear whether this system of surveillance would apply only to prisoners or to all people under the watch of the criminal justice system in England and Wales.
Seems like a key question, have any journalists asked it yet?
JonnotheMackem on
She read 1984 after Jeremy Bentham and assumed it was an instruction manual, I see.
aleopardstail on
it has become a bit of a meme that 1984 was a warning not an instruction manual
explorerazure on
And how is this AI going to do it’s job when people can still wear face coverings in public?
CrazyGazpacho on
Can we leave party politics of reddit to one side and just consider what she said there!? Thats terrifying stuff
oh_no3000 on
Hah jokes on them I take my entire years data on A4 every year and fax it to them.
Good luck work experience Sam who is still halfway through reading my anti government threats from 1997
Revolutionary-Mode75 on
Honestly don’t understand why the media just can’t wait for the release of the white paper instead of speculating about what will and will not be in the white paper.
IllustriousCow8249 on
AHHHH I FUCKING HATE THIS BITCH FUCKING SUELLA BRAVEMAN SYNDROME IS REAL AHHHHH
radikalkarrot on
To be fair, I would be ok with this if the system would also have eyes on MPs, other members of the government and the royals at all times. If they are ok with that then sure.
Actual-Photograph794 on
When you consider that Labour are in bed with Palantir, despite them finding targets for the IDF, supporting ICE kidnappers, despite their founders being utter weirdos who believe they can become transhuman, despite the fact Peter Thiel hesitates when asked if he wants the human race to endure (yes really)…. this is beyond terrifying
NsanelyCrazy on
Labours gotta stop using George Orwell’s books as material for government policies.
Difficult-Break-8282 on
The Panopticon is a thought experiment for a PRISON not society wtf is happening.
belisarius93 on
Little ham fisted to imply you want to turn the entire country into a prison, but I understand the incentives. If the govt supports a China style surveillance state, then I think it’s for the best that they’re honest about it so that they can lose the next election on those grounds.
hime-633 on
Couldn’t we use that money to, say, fix the socioeconomic problems that are the proximate cause of much crime?
Instead of just spaffing it up the wall to American tech companies. ?
rdu3y6 on
I’m so tired and fed up of this constant attacking any form of digital privacy or online anonymity. There was ZERO mention of this during the election but it feels like it all the government care about now.
Can’t fix hospitals, repair potholes, boost front line services or anything that people actually want them to do. It’s all surveillance, control and authoritarianism from Labour. They absolutely deserve the hatred they’re getting.
NotJacobMurphy on
Don’t know if I can really trust a paper that hides its info behind a personalised ad wall.
cstross on
Has anybody told this fool that Jeremy Bentham’s Panopticon **was designed to be the ultimate prison**?
(Obviously this is just normal for the Home Office, who seem to think that the UK can only be kept safe if all of us are put in a prison cell for safe-keeping while they wait to find out what we’re guilty of, because we’re obviously all guilty. I mean, it’s not like Judge Dredd was satirizing this attitude, is it … /s)
JBobSpig on
In public spaces and government or private businesses sure, in personal private spaces no.
People get all “it’s 1984!” about stuff like this but it stops criminals being able to hide, it helps in all the things people want to happen, just are people ok with this level of surveillance in the UK? Aren’t we already one of the most surveillanced countries in the world?
37 commenti
For those who don’t already know and don’t read articles [Jeremy Bentham’s panopticon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon) was intended as a revolutionary new prison.
Reminder we have this government and yet the fascists are the other party.
> When I was in justice, my ultimate vision for that part of the criminal justice system was to achieve, by means of AI and technology, what Jeremy Bentham tried to do with his Panopticon. **That is that the eyes of the state can be on you at all times.**
Genuinely chilling words. I wonder if that extends to MPs as well.
It’s the tyranny of it all.
We’ve got absolute loons in power.
Uniparties wet dream, surveillance everywhere.
Blair wanted it, Cameron wanted it, Johnson wanted it, Starmer wants it.
Privacy is dead, 1984 was a prediction, and it’ll all be sold to highest bidder to run.
> police forces are looking at monitoring 1000 men they believe pose the highest risk to women to predict whether they will commit crimes.
Will inevitably be expanded to everyone.
With the social media ban and digital IDs, people will bw rrested for pre-crimes just because of what they post or watch online.
I suspect those who are most frightened by this will be those who feel this could be used to force them to live according to their beliefs.
Rightwinger with a foreign spouse but spends time posting about how immigrants should be deported.
Left wing trust-fund baby who talks about how the unearned income of the rich should be taxed more.
Also very bad for the redditors who see everything in black or white, no nuanced shades of grey allowed.
That said I’d be terrified of what a Reform government would do with this sort of system, so I have deep reservations about this.
Yeh… I’m not happy with this. Way too much Palantir shit going on now.
“This doesn’t mean watching people who are non-criminals – but she feels like, if you commit a crime, you sacrifice the right to the kind of liberty the rest of us enjoy.”
But it does mean watching people who are non criminals. Also does this mean you make a stupid mistake when you’re younger, and that’s it, the state has the right to watch your every move forever?
Honestly this issue of state surveillance should be the thing that unites the left and right because it has the potential to affect all of us
Guys at the next election you know what to do. I don’t care if you vote reform or green it doesn’t matter you know what you need to do
You have more freedom in Communist China or the DPRK.
I will accept this idea when Mahmood agrees to:
1. Install cameras in every room of her house, office and car
2. Hook those cameras up to an AI
3. Making that AI publicly accessible so we can ask whatever questions we like about her day.
She’s got nothing to hide right? So she should be fine with the AI publishing a summary of her activities.
This is now at the “they are not even trying to hide it anymore” state.
Shocking.
But there will be a part of society exempt from this. They will be the ones attacking you, while you as much approach their towns dwelling and off you go to the cell, or pay a hefty contribution to their house of evil.
Is there a mandate that all politicians need to be completely stupid now? I swear they used to suggest things that might improve the country, or if you weren’t in power you might suggest things that people would really like to entice you to vote for them. I’m waiting for someone to step up and be a real political party and sound reasonable enough that people will stop entertaining the idea of voting for populists or racists, but instead they’ve stopped acting out the thick of it and moved on to fucking dystopian sci-fi films.
Shabana read a couple pages of Foucault and completely misunderstood the point
So the government knows who wants to act for the rest of their life?
Its inevitable, the better the tech the better surveillance.
We might as well get use to it, it has been in sci-fi for decades.
1984 is sci-fi history.
I guess the positive to this, is they have stopped lots of terrorist attacks, by all kinds of different people.
Many we may never know about.
Will MPs be surveilled too? Nothing to hide, nothing to fear right?
>It is not clear whether this system of surveillance would apply only to prisoners or to all people under the watch of the criminal justice system in England and Wales.
Seems like a key question, have any journalists asked it yet?
She read 1984 after Jeremy Bentham and assumed it was an instruction manual, I see.
it has become a bit of a meme that 1984 was a warning not an instruction manual
And how is this AI going to do it’s job when people can still wear face coverings in public?
Can we leave party politics of reddit to one side and just consider what she said there!? Thats terrifying stuff
Hah jokes on them I take my entire years data on A4 every year and fax it to them.
Good luck work experience Sam who is still halfway through reading my anti government threats from 1997
Honestly don’t understand why the media just can’t wait for the release of the white paper instead of speculating about what will and will not be in the white paper.
AHHHH I FUCKING HATE THIS BITCH FUCKING SUELLA BRAVEMAN SYNDROME IS REAL AHHHHH
To be fair, I would be ok with this if the system would also have eyes on MPs, other members of the government and the royals at all times. If they are ok with that then sure.
When you consider that Labour are in bed with Palantir, despite them finding targets for the IDF, supporting ICE kidnappers, despite their founders being utter weirdos who believe they can become transhuman, despite the fact Peter Thiel hesitates when asked if he wants the human race to endure (yes really)…. this is beyond terrifying
Labours gotta stop using George Orwell’s books as material for government policies.
The Panopticon is a thought experiment for a PRISON not society wtf is happening.
Little ham fisted to imply you want to turn the entire country into a prison, but I understand the incentives. If the govt supports a China style surveillance state, then I think it’s for the best that they’re honest about it so that they can lose the next election on those grounds.
Couldn’t we use that money to, say, fix the socioeconomic problems that are the proximate cause of much crime?
Instead of just spaffing it up the wall to American tech companies. ?
I’m so tired and fed up of this constant attacking any form of digital privacy or online anonymity. There was ZERO mention of this during the election but it feels like it all the government care about now.
Can’t fix hospitals, repair potholes, boost front line services or anything that people actually want them to do. It’s all surveillance, control and authoritarianism from Labour. They absolutely deserve the hatred they’re getting.
Don’t know if I can really trust a paper that hides its info behind a personalised ad wall.
Has anybody told this fool that Jeremy Bentham’s Panopticon **was designed to be the ultimate prison**?
(Obviously this is just normal for the Home Office, who seem to think that the UK can only be kept safe if all of us are put in a prison cell for safe-keeping while they wait to find out what we’re guilty of, because we’re obviously all guilty. I mean, it’s not like Judge Dredd was satirizing this attitude, is it … /s)
In public spaces and government or private businesses sure, in personal private spaces no.
People get all “it’s 1984!” about stuff like this but it stops criminals being able to hide, it helps in all the things people want to happen, just are people ok with this level of surveillance in the UK? Aren’t we already one of the most surveillanced countries in the world?