As president Zelensky noted, Ukraine’s one million soldiers can contribute greatly to the new European Army. Both in doctrine and in personnel; the most experienced troops in the world.
Ok-Somewhere9814 on
Given that Ukraine has the most capable military force in Europe (and possibly beyond) – it’s not a bad idea to pair up with them
Basaku-r on
Needs to happen, what more can even be said at this point. Europe needs to rely on its own power to defend itself. We can trade and be friendly with US, China and other parts of the world, but ain’t no one gonna protect us here but ourselves.
Forsaken-Medium-2436 on
I’m down for European army, but 3 million soldiers is overkill, US army is bit over 1 million and they station in bases all around the world, EU doesn’t need that much just to keep continent safe
Rhoderick on
The number is not the key part, at least in the immediacy. But if we are to stand up to foreign threats, to stop our only decision being which of the US, Russia, or China to be vassals to, then we need a standing, unified, powerful military force, and fast. A mere defense union is not sufficient to react to immediate threats of war.
ConinTheNinoC on
As a European i fully support this idea.
Total-Satisfaction-8 on
Probably a good idea yes
iguled on
The shift should be decoupling from the US in terms of things like sigint and other forms of battlefield support.
Worried-Lingonberry on
Just 65k-130k each countries depends on size multiple w 27. Easy 3million.
zork824 on
A united Europe is the only way our way of living and our shared beliefs can keep living on. I sincerely hope that what is happening right now in the world will only serve as fuel to abandon the Europe as we know it and embrace it fully, as a federation of states, with unified army and laws. We need to rely on ourselves, our market, our culture and our expertise.
BrutalSock on
We should be the United States of Europe. I don’t know what we’re waiting for. It’s obvious that we can’t hope to survive alone.
And yeah that means unified army too.
Buildadoor on
Can Canada join our European brothers in this European army? We’ve fought alongside all our history.
ResourceWorker on
We have to start making more Europeans if that’s going to be sustainable. Current birth rates don’t cut it.
ProfessionalLion9039 on
European Army already has 1.6M soldiers and another 4M reservists, this is more than enough for 450M civilians. The problem is not size, its organisation.
Forward_Occasion5055 on
Cool he can be #1
petrolhead18 on
No sovereign country is going to hand over command of their troops, it’s a nice dream but completely unrealistic.
RootBinder on
If they allow foreign volunteers you can count me in
Crooked_Sartre on
As an American please do this. We are completely unreliable. Please form an army and invade good god
Kazeninaru on
I think it really is time to question if EU is more than a trade Bloc, or if such a united European army could include European non-EU states. In any case i fully support the idea.
Equivalent-Role4632 on
Yes enough is enough. Our leaders in Europe is so weak they are handing us over to these fascist. No more playing tootsie foots with these mentally unstable mobsters. That’s all Trump is, a mentally unstable mobster. He wants Greenland, tell him to come get it instead of sending text messages to him praising. He wants to fight, then lets do this or fright off.
We need some leaders who will actually stand up for us, or our democracies are over. We are twice the population of USA and we put our armies together no one is gonna mess with us. And those countries like Italy and Hungary who still have all these fascist tendencies either fall in line our we cut them of completely.
With Italy it’s easy. You don’t get to compete in Europe in football anymore more and watch them fall in line.
We need to stand up for ourselves.
PitMaki on
So who’s here that is all puffing up their chests will raise their hands and sign up for duty?
slight_digression on
Time for the people on r/europe to do the right thing.
Kryptus on
A 30 million drone army would be better.
Relative-Cold290 on
We already have something like 1,5 millions of soldiers with the 27.Â
We should be able to have 3 millions or a little more if we start to handle ourself.
We should definitively do something like that.
bindermichi on
Doubling the number of European troops is easier said than done.
SaraHHHBK on
Which country is gonna give up the sovereignty of their military for it?
Cynical_Doggie on
Imagine having a military and not using it offensively or defensively for geopolitical goals.
SequenceofRees on
Or just make sure the children of the 3 richest Russians get kicked out of European universities .
Or hire 3 hackers to make sure the entirety of pootin’s cabinet can’t go on holidays in the Maldives .
Or just convince 3 of the most russian oil and gas addicted European countries to stop using it entirely .
Silly_AsH on
Good luck finding 3 million young europeans willing to take up arms in defense of Europe.
I really hope I’m wrong.
Competitive-Dare-188 on
This is a reasonable proposal. The EU has all the resources to protect its economy and its territory.
TheComplimentarian on
Well, that’s more bodies than needed (that’s a million more than *China*, and more than twice the US), but Europe is right to take charge of their own defense. Letting the US shoulder the cost is fine, when the US isn’t being insane. Clearly we can’t count on that.
DarKresnik on
Hope.so but not to fight in the Ukraine war, Ukraine is not a part of EU, nor Europe. Sorry guys, but that’s true. We should be prepared for Russians and Americans.
_lunatic on
And 10mln UAV pls
Smooth_Imagination on
You only need 1 million with production capacity of millions of drones and all systems they need, annually, and a lot of artillery.
The best European army would be mainly derrived from Ukraine, by financing that Ukraine obtains valuable revenues whose taxation goes to supporting rebuilding.Â
UA soldiers are far more combat experienced and lower cost than from other EU countries, so most should come from there.
Secondly, wars in the future are more automated. Having a huge standing personnel overhead sucks money from weapons development and procurement at a time autonomous systems are greatly reducing personnel requirements.Â
It is far better to have 1 million well trained personnel with the right equipment than 3 million with insufficient equipment and far higher losses in the event of conflict. You want high troop fatalities?
UA has demonstrated effectiveness of drone lines reducing contact to its troops, and very high kill ratios (dozens to 1) in some well prepared and supported areas like Kupiansk.
Finally, the reason why there isnt an EU army is because major members, like France and potentially UK, have militaries and doctrines focused on long range wars protecting national interests i.e. in Africa with weapon systems ill suited to land war in Europe. Because they wish to use these in their own national interest, they are not purely defensive and dont align with EU wide objectives. The EU army would not have a mandate to get involved in those national interests. On the other hand Ukraine does not not have those interests and so serves the EU wide defense interest as it shares border with its main threat and therefore is lurely defensively aligned.
This is also why in NATO France is allowed special freedoms and does everything its own way. Its not as integrated as the others.
TareasS on
Bruh that is Operation Barbarossa level size lmao.
HowAmIHere2000 on
Why not 5 million soldiers?
endianess on
Greenland is a good test. If every European nation sends troops then it’s a good indicator that it might be possible. I fear though that quite a few nations will refuse and that probably ends this as a nice idea but will never work.
Working to common standards and better integration will probably be a better immediate goal.
skeeeper on
Under whose leadership?
blkpingu on
We either die alone or stand together
Crafty_Birthday_2457 on
I would rather eat oatmeal 3 times a day than licking Russian or American boots. We need our own army!
AzzakFeed on
The EU countries + UK already have 1.7m active duty troops and over 4 million reservists.
Add Ukraine and it’s on paper a lot of soldiers, even just active duty troops.
The problem isn’t manpower: it’s logistics, ammunition, transportation… Most soldiers can’t be deployed anywhere else from their own city nor at the same time.
And it doesn’t matter if you run out of air defense missiles or drones. In WW2, the outdated 1 million strong yoguslavian army folded in 11 days against the Germans (although the people themselves kept fighting hard against the nazis after).
JanPapajT90M on
That is just retarded and not possible. EU could just add laws which wouldn make EU also a military alliance
Every army has it’s own regulations, procedures, financing, diffrent equipment and the most importantly language
42 commenti
As president Zelensky noted, Ukraine’s one million soldiers can contribute greatly to the new European Army. Both in doctrine and in personnel; the most experienced troops in the world.
Given that Ukraine has the most capable military force in Europe (and possibly beyond) – it’s not a bad idea to pair up with them
Needs to happen, what more can even be said at this point. Europe needs to rely on its own power to defend itself. We can trade and be friendly with US, China and other parts of the world, but ain’t no one gonna protect us here but ourselves.
I’m down for European army, but 3 million soldiers is overkill, US army is bit over 1 million and they station in bases all around the world, EU doesn’t need that much just to keep continent safe
The number is not the key part, at least in the immediacy. But if we are to stand up to foreign threats, to stop our only decision being which of the US, Russia, or China to be vassals to, then we need a standing, unified, powerful military force, and fast. A mere defense union is not sufficient to react to immediate threats of war.
As a European i fully support this idea.
Probably a good idea yes
The shift should be decoupling from the US in terms of things like sigint and other forms of battlefield support.
Just 65k-130k each countries depends on size multiple w 27. Easy 3million.
A united Europe is the only way our way of living and our shared beliefs can keep living on. I sincerely hope that what is happening right now in the world will only serve as fuel to abandon the Europe as we know it and embrace it fully, as a federation of states, with unified army and laws. We need to rely on ourselves, our market, our culture and our expertise.
We should be the United States of Europe. I don’t know what we’re waiting for. It’s obvious that we can’t hope to survive alone.
And yeah that means unified army too.
Can Canada join our European brothers in this European army? We’ve fought alongside all our history.
We have to start making more Europeans if that’s going to be sustainable. Current birth rates don’t cut it.
European Army already has 1.6M soldiers and another 4M reservists, this is more than enough for 450M civilians. The problem is not size, its organisation.
Cool he can be #1
No sovereign country is going to hand over command of their troops, it’s a nice dream but completely unrealistic.
If they allow foreign volunteers you can count me in
As an American please do this. We are completely unreliable. Please form an army and invade good god
I think it really is time to question if EU is more than a trade Bloc, or if such a united European army could include European non-EU states. In any case i fully support the idea.
Yes enough is enough. Our leaders in Europe is so weak they are handing us over to these fascist. No more playing tootsie foots with these mentally unstable mobsters. That’s all Trump is, a mentally unstable mobster. He wants Greenland, tell him to come get it instead of sending text messages to him praising. He wants to fight, then lets do this or fright off.
We need some leaders who will actually stand up for us, or our democracies are over. We are twice the population of USA and we put our armies together no one is gonna mess with us. And those countries like Italy and Hungary who still have all these fascist tendencies either fall in line our we cut them of completely.
With Italy it’s easy. You don’t get to compete in Europe in football anymore more and watch them fall in line.
We need to stand up for ourselves.
So who’s here that is all puffing up their chests will raise their hands and sign up for duty?
Time for the people on r/europe to do the right thing.
A 30 million drone army would be better.
We already have something like 1,5 millions of soldiers with the 27.Â
We should be able to have 3 millions or a little more if we start to handle ourself.
We should definitively do something like that.
Doubling the number of European troops is easier said than done.
Which country is gonna give up the sovereignty of their military for it?
Imagine having a military and not using it offensively or defensively for geopolitical goals.
Or just make sure the children of the 3 richest Russians get kicked out of European universities .
Or hire 3 hackers to make sure the entirety of pootin’s cabinet can’t go on holidays in the Maldives .
Or just convince 3 of the most russian oil and gas addicted European countries to stop using it entirely .
Good luck finding 3 million young europeans willing to take up arms in defense of Europe.
I really hope I’m wrong.
This is a reasonable proposal. The EU has all the resources to protect its economy and its territory.
Well, that’s more bodies than needed (that’s a million more than *China*, and more than twice the US), but Europe is right to take charge of their own defense. Letting the US shoulder the cost is fine, when the US isn’t being insane. Clearly we can’t count on that.
Hope.so but not to fight in the Ukraine war, Ukraine is not a part of EU, nor Europe. Sorry guys, but that’s true. We should be prepared for Russians and Americans.
And 10mln UAV pls
You only need 1 million with production capacity of millions of drones and all systems they need, annually, and a lot of artillery.
The best European army would be mainly derrived from Ukraine, by financing that Ukraine obtains valuable revenues whose taxation goes to supporting rebuilding.Â
UA soldiers are far more combat experienced and lower cost than from other EU countries, so most should come from there.
Secondly, wars in the future are more automated. Having a huge standing personnel overhead sucks money from weapons development and procurement at a time autonomous systems are greatly reducing personnel requirements.Â
It is far better to have 1 million well trained personnel with the right equipment than 3 million with insufficient equipment and far higher losses in the event of conflict. You want high troop fatalities?
UA has demonstrated effectiveness of drone lines reducing contact to its troops, and very high kill ratios (dozens to 1) in some well prepared and supported areas like Kupiansk.
Finally, the reason why there isnt an EU army is because major members, like France and potentially UK, have militaries and doctrines focused on long range wars protecting national interests i.e. in Africa with weapon systems ill suited to land war in Europe. Because they wish to use these in their own national interest, they are not purely defensive and dont align with EU wide objectives. The EU army would not have a mandate to get involved in those national interests. On the other hand Ukraine does not not have those interests and so serves the EU wide defense interest as it shares border with its main threat and therefore is lurely defensively aligned.
This is also why in NATO France is allowed special freedoms and does everything its own way. Its not as integrated as the others.
Bruh that is Operation Barbarossa level size lmao.
Why not 5 million soldiers?
Greenland is a good test. If every European nation sends troops then it’s a good indicator that it might be possible. I fear though that quite a few nations will refuse and that probably ends this as a nice idea but will never work.
Working to common standards and better integration will probably be a better immediate goal.
Under whose leadership?
We either die alone or stand together
I would rather eat oatmeal 3 times a day than licking Russian or American boots. We need our own army!
The EU countries + UK already have 1.7m active duty troops and over 4 million reservists.
Add Ukraine and it’s on paper a lot of soldiers, even just active duty troops.
The problem isn’t manpower: it’s logistics, ammunition, transportation… Most soldiers can’t be deployed anywhere else from their own city nor at the same time.
And it doesn’t matter if you run out of air defense missiles or drones. In WW2, the outdated 1 million strong yoguslavian army folded in 11 days against the Germans (although the people themselves kept fighting hard against the nazis after).
That is just retarded and not possible. EU could just add laws which wouldn make EU also a military alliance
Every army has it’s own regulations, procedures, financing, diffrent equipment and the most importantly language