Edit: Its about the fact that some countries demand *and do*, some mostly demand.
EU army requires will and investment. If everyone would have the Spanish position and wait for bureaucratic reform first, then investment from elsewhere, we will never have an EU army. France and Germany are, right now, the ones making it possible.
I am not saying we should not have an EU army. I am saying Spain should join France and Germany in behavior. If that’s a position to be downvoted on rEurope, I can live with that. I am sure my position is more helpful to move towards an EU army.
The fancy statements of will are not what we are lacking, right now.
Right now, we are on the way to have a small subset of EU members, dominated by France and Germany, make it happen. Naturally, this will lead to outsized influence by them on procurement and positioning. I wonder what all the commenting nations from the sidelines will do, then. Especially a country like Spain, which acty has geostrategic issues relatively isolated from its peers (eg Morocco, natural closeness to LATAM) should actually be interested in being at the front in taking action, to maintain political influence.
Therefore, I indeed do find it questionable, how much Spain actually is invested in the concept of an EU army, beyond the cheap talk. I don’t have the same doubt around France, for example. And its, IMHO, perfectly fine to discuss diifferences in the approach of the issue among nations, as long as they are that large.
Its also not like Spain actually proposes specific setups of integration, moreso than others, and “invests” that way. At least, I never heard of such. To the extent of my knowledge, the French spend the most diplomatical capital on that, while the Germans and Dutch are the closest to displaying a workable solution to base an EU army on, due to their partial military merger. Relating to the reasonable argument often made by Spanish users, that Spain actually dors well in the firepower index, why do we not see Spain then spend more effort on actually preparing bureaucratic integration?
Edit2: Before someone gets the idea of calling me a Russian/US shill or bot: Feel free to actually disagree on my interpretation of the situation. If you wanna just insult me, please write me a PN, instead, so I can ignore you without wasting other readers’ time.
jeremy9931 on
Is Spain gonna actually move towards funding their own first?
CuriousCat31441 on
Bots, trolls, and useful idiots sewing division in the comments once again.
Yes Vladimirovich, Spain would surely fund it in a fair manner just like the rest of us. I find it hard to believe they wouldn’t, if they join it.
The fact that Spain is not excited to sponsor the US military industrial complex just so we can have 27 tiny armies, does not imply that they would not sponsor a European army.
Key_Duck_6293 on
Ive been against this idea most of my adult life. Im from Ireland where we took pride in our neutrality & have never really had to fear invasion.
Boy was I wrong. Whether it be Russian ships in our waters, drones flown at our state visitors, or someone someday giving trump the idea that Ireland could be a big US base, the signs are now clear Ireland needs to play its part to defend Europe & everything we hold dear.
FantasticQuartet on
As someone from Greece, yes please. We spend way too much money from our budget to maintain an army considering our limited finances.
It might also solve the problem of mandatory conscription which a lot of men here hate.
KaQuu on
Yeeeeeeeeeees
DO IT! LIKE YESTERDAY!
Let’s talk about it let’s aim at it, even if after some are gonna oppose it’s good start, its gonna be fine even if we create some ,, European national(?) guard forces” anything that’s gonna make us more united, let’s not expect perfection in first try. But we HAVE TO START DOING SOMETHING IN THIS DIRECTION!
MisarZahod on
Yeah thats why they had to get a examption in nato because they do so much for defense
mikeontablet on
This being one of the countries who balked at upping their military budget to 5% of GDP about 6 months ago?
Deqnkata on
This absolutely needs to become a priority. We dont need 30 small all-round armies that are good at nothing, especially individually. We have to start thinking towards the future and separation only means we will get eaten up as soon as one of the big powers decides it is a convenient moment. This is absolutely a watershed moment where we have to stop bickering about our troubled past and look forward. A united army is going to be much more effective AND efficient(costwise and in practice). And it will be much better to actually arm without the need to buy everything from the US.
xwolf360 on
What happened with Europe no more wars ideology? You guys need to learn to read between the lines. , all this means is send Europeans to die in the first wave then have americans come in to save the day and become world heroes again. Ww3 is going to be a shitty remake
ssushi-speakers on
Spain, however, was the only member of “the thirty-two-nation Alliance that refused to commit to this target. Instead, Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez secured a special exemption for Madrid, insisting Spain would cap its military budget at approximately 2.1 percent of GDP, a level he described as “sufficient and realistic.””
Spain wants an easy ride here, their economy is booming and they need to man the fuck up!
2.1 % my arse. First align with the rest of Europe.
Familiar-Self5359 on
Europe should stop talking about it and just fucking do it! This is why everyone considers us weak. Because all we do is talk! We’re like the Judean People’s Front from Life of Brian ffs!
mteir on
Would it be easier to start with the airforce or navy first?
They are high in cost, lower in manpower, easier to shift from one side of the continent to the other. It could give an EU central command time to “test its wings” collaborating with the needs, resources and organization in a structure of thousands of people, before taking on a land army with potentially a few million.
13 commenti
Feel free to take the initiative in funding it
Edit: Its about the fact that some countries demand *and do*, some mostly demand.
EU army requires will and investment. If everyone would have the Spanish position and wait for bureaucratic reform first, then investment from elsewhere, we will never have an EU army. France and Germany are, right now, the ones making it possible.
I am not saying we should not have an EU army. I am saying Spain should join France and Germany in behavior. If that’s a position to be downvoted on rEurope, I can live with that. I am sure my position is more helpful to move towards an EU army.
The fancy statements of will are not what we are lacking, right now.
Right now, we are on the way to have a small subset of EU members, dominated by France and Germany, make it happen. Naturally, this will lead to outsized influence by them on procurement and positioning. I wonder what all the commenting nations from the sidelines will do, then. Especially a country like Spain, which acty has geostrategic issues relatively isolated from its peers (eg Morocco, natural closeness to LATAM) should actually be interested in being at the front in taking action, to maintain political influence.
Therefore, I indeed do find it questionable, how much Spain actually is invested in the concept of an EU army, beyond the cheap talk. I don’t have the same doubt around France, for example. And its, IMHO, perfectly fine to discuss diifferences in the approach of the issue among nations, as long as they are that large.
Its also not like Spain actually proposes specific setups of integration, moreso than others, and “invests” that way. At least, I never heard of such. To the extent of my knowledge, the French spend the most diplomatical capital on that, while the Germans and Dutch are the closest to displaying a workable solution to base an EU army on, due to their partial military merger. Relating to the reasonable argument often made by Spanish users, that Spain actually dors well in the firepower index, why do we not see Spain then spend more effort on actually preparing bureaucratic integration?
Edit2: Before someone gets the idea of calling me a Russian/US shill or bot: Feel free to actually disagree on my interpretation of the situation. If you wanna just insult me, please write me a PN, instead, so I can ignore you without wasting other readers’ time.
Is Spain gonna actually move towards funding their own first?
Bots, trolls, and useful idiots sewing division in the comments once again.
Yes Vladimirovich, Spain would surely fund it in a fair manner just like the rest of us. I find it hard to believe they wouldn’t, if they join it.
The fact that Spain is not excited to sponsor the US military industrial complex just so we can have 27 tiny armies, does not imply that they would not sponsor a European army.
Ive been against this idea most of my adult life. Im from Ireland where we took pride in our neutrality & have never really had to fear invasion.
Boy was I wrong. Whether it be Russian ships in our waters, drones flown at our state visitors, or someone someday giving trump the idea that Ireland could be a big US base, the signs are now clear Ireland needs to play its part to defend Europe & everything we hold dear.
As someone from Greece, yes please. We spend way too much money from our budget to maintain an army considering our limited finances.
It might also solve the problem of mandatory conscription which a lot of men here hate.
Yeeeeeeeeeees
DO IT! LIKE YESTERDAY!
Let’s talk about it let’s aim at it, even if after some are gonna oppose it’s good start, its gonna be fine even if we create some ,, European national(?) guard forces” anything that’s gonna make us more united, let’s not expect perfection in first try. But we HAVE TO START DOING SOMETHING IN THIS DIRECTION!
Yeah thats why they had to get a examption in nato because they do so much for defense
This being one of the countries who balked at upping their military budget to 5% of GDP about 6 months ago?
This absolutely needs to become a priority. We dont need 30 small all-round armies that are good at nothing, especially individually. We have to start thinking towards the future and separation only means we will get eaten up as soon as one of the big powers decides it is a convenient moment. This is absolutely a watershed moment where we have to stop bickering about our troubled past and look forward. A united army is going to be much more effective AND efficient(costwise and in practice). And it will be much better to actually arm without the need to buy everything from the US.
What happened with Europe no more wars ideology? You guys need to learn to read between the lines. , all this means is send Europeans to die in the first wave then have americans come in to save the day and become world heroes again. Ww3 is going to be a shitty remake
Spain, however, was the only member of “the thirty-two-nation Alliance that refused to commit to this target. Instead, Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez secured a special exemption for Madrid, insisting Spain would cap its military budget at approximately 2.1 percent of GDP, a level he described as “sufficient and realistic.””
Spain wants an easy ride here, their economy is booming and they need to man the fuck up!
2.1 % my arse. First align with the rest of Europe.
Europe should stop talking about it and just fucking do it! This is why everyone considers us weak. Because all we do is talk! We’re like the Judean People’s Front from Life of Brian ffs!
Would it be easier to start with the airforce or navy first?
They are high in cost, lower in manpower, easier to shift from one side of the continent to the other. It could give an EU central command time to “test its wings” collaborating with the needs, resources and organization in a structure of thousands of people, before taking on a land army with potentially a few million.