Il Taoiseach mette in guardia dal sancire la neutralità irlandese nella Costituzione
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-41789684.html
di Fealocht
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33 commenti
If it’s what the people want and they vote for it then frankly fuck what he thinks.
If anything happens where ireland needs to step up then we step.ip or dont. Doesn’t matter about how.
this the same sham rocking up to the white house next month?
Well that is not up to him to decide. If people want it in constitution, then it should be.
We need to move on from DeValera days.
If its enshrined in the constitution, will we have to divert currently spending to military defence so that we can defend ourselves in the event of a threat?
It would be absolutely idiotic to put something like that in the constitution when you don’t know what future challenges you will face.
> “straitjacket the Government democratically forever”
We have to listen to our betters 🙄
The point of neutrality is to be loyal to no empires or power blocs, to not fight wars for imperialists
Let’s do it but also introduce military service and get our military spending to the level of neutral countries like Austria or Sweden (pre NATO).
Oh, you wouldn’t support that because you want the UK and NATO to protect us for free while complaining about them and pretending to be neutral?
He is right about this one. Polling on foreign policy is all over the place.
A huge majority support Neutrality while at the same time a large majority support sending weapons to Ukraine. The Government has refused to send Ukraine weapons as they draw this as the line where Neutrality ends.
A lot of the public seems to have a very liberal interpretation as to what Neutrality actually means but in practice it is a lot more constraining than they think.
You don’t want to be putting shite like this onto the constitution. If an EU member state gets invaded, what are we going to do, shrug our shoulders?
We can’t be on the sideline in this new world order. We’re an integral part of the “second superpower”, the European Union and the like-minded countries of the EU that are making up the coalition of the willing such as Canada, Norway and Ukraine.
If we cack our jocks now, the United States and/or Russia will just gobble us up.
Well he can fuck off. Send his kids to war if he wants. I want mine to stay here.
If ever there were something that would benefit from a Citizens Convention, this feels like it
I almost feel like there should always be a Citizens Convention ongoing (there are so many of these types of issues in our society)
Literally the vast majority of the country wants neutrality it’s been proven every time these clowns tried to stack the deck in public forums yet still failed in pushing against neutrality. The same fool who literally railed against Irish sovereignty and lost two referendums with his coalition partners is going to try force us to lose neutrality in order to fight European wars. If they try force the loss of neutrality they are literally commiting treason to the constitution and the Irish state
The government probably should be democratically “straight-jacketed” if the Taoiseach doesn’t even trust that the Irish people know what’s good for themselves. What a gombeen. If we were to listen to him we would never have any referendums about anything, and in fact shouldn’t even have a constitution.
Putting neutrality in the constitution is as bad as an idea as when we put a ban on abortion in the constitution, and for the same reasons – completely hamstrings the government of the day from taking effective action on complex problems that require nuance.
People who support this haven’t given the subject any serious thought.
> a referendum could “straitjacket the Government democratically forever”
oh boy that is a *dangerous* thing for the man ostensibly trusted to represent the will of the people to say. in other words he is worried that future governments (which he sees himself leading of course) might be restrained from taking unilateral military action against the express will of the irish people. or more simply, he doesn’t give a shit about democracy and would rather the government not be answerable to the people.
the man has revealed his dangerous authoritarian streak in no uncertain terms now.
If there’s one word I loathe in modern Irish political discourse, it’s “neutrality”, followed by the phrase “triple lock”. I can’t believe I’m saying this (someone stab me with a fork to ensure I’m not in some fever dream) but Martin is right.
And fuck the 71% of people who’ve made me say that.
This is another attempt by a small group to shout down debate, and rush in a poorly judged change as they can see the tide turning. I’m not neutral between Ukraine & Russia, and never will be, and I think Ireland should be the same.
MM will hopefully refrain from making decisions against the will of the Irish people.
Define neutrality, say if Russia invades an EU member state, technically speaking they would have invaded the EU which we are part of, so would helping them with troops or weapons be a breach of neutrality?
I would say helping a fellow EU state if invaded wouldn’t be a breach?
What a stupid thing to put in the constitution. We need to keep our options open depending on the threats and circumstances we face. Neutrality won’t protect us from aggression it it comes to it
Forcing future governments to be neutral is crazy. We have no idea what the future holds and I can see that being neutral at some time in the future could have foreseeable and disastrous consequences.
Who is asking for this ?
Neutrality is meaningless when big countries do not respect the rights of independent sovereign nations. We know this from history.
Remember what happened in 1914 when the German Empire invaded neutral Belgium. Which violated the 1839 Treaty of London that guaranteed Belgian neutrality.
The 1939 German invasion of Poland.
North Korea invading South Korea, starting the Korean War.
Russia”s recent actions such as invading Georgia, the first invasion of Ukraine when Russia seized Crimea by force and in 2022 the full scale Russian invasion of Ukraine.
Edit: The fact some people are downvoting this, shows they must hate the facts and the truth!
What an odd statement to make.
If we’re completely constitutionally neutral does that mean we wouldn’t be allowed introduce an Occupied Territories Bill as that would be taking sides?
The Irish Constitution needs a good once over. It’s way too overbearing.
So to be clear here, being entirely neutral means –
Not relying solely on the RAF to police our airspace (buying fighter jets)
Actually investing meaningfully in the defence forces and not chucking toys out of the pram and crying warmonger when the question of buying new weapons systems comes up
Total removal of all American military flights from Shannon
And finally, losing this ridiculous notion of “ah shure who’d invade us hahaha” and understanding Ireland’s position on the world stage as a major tech and pharmaceutical hub to several NATO member countries
A lot of people in this country have a **very** romanticised view of what Irish neutrality is, so to enshrine it in the constitution means facing up to hard truths
I think we need to shift the conversation away from neutrality and on to sovereignty. If we can’t properly defend our airspace, seas, or critical infrastructure without relying on others, then our independence is conditional. In the 20th century, neutrality was mainly about staying out of alliances and not getting dragged into wars. Today, threats range from cyber attacks, infrastructure, disinformation, energy, interference in elections, and whatever comes next with AI. None of those respect “neutral” status.
So the honest question is: how exactly does neutrality protect us from any of that?
He is 100% right on this!