I mean if we want a representative and equal society the normalisation of the metric we use for hiring and testing have to take into account age and gender. It’s already a done thing across much of the public sector where fitness and strength is tested, if it takes an 8k payout of this manner to get the cork firefighters to implement better policies then that’s a solid result.
EchoedMinds on
Well this comments section will be totally normal
FatherlyNick on
Isn’t the whole point of a test – to discriminate based on score and no other factor?
Otherwise there’s no point in doing the test – everyone gets a pass.
A fair the test doesn’t care who you are or your age, only about the result you get. wtf is this ruling?
Bill_Badbody on
>without the application of a normative table that considers age and gender in determining the final score, was both directly discriminatory towards Foott and indirectly discriminatory against women,
This is obvious to anyone who has used or run these types of tests.
All these type of tables are easily available online.
AUX4 on
What a mad ruling.
Minimum fitness standards are required regardless of any other factor.
Pleasant_Birthday_77 on
I suppose they weren’t able to demonstrate why the beep test standards shouldn’t be adjusted for different groups to the court’s satisfaction. This is the spot where anti discrimination measures and job suitability intersecting. Can a woman who has the equivalent but not equal fitness as a man of the same age perform the role as well and if not, is it what you reckon or can you demonstrate it?
Original2056 on
If im in a burning building i dont give a fook if a man woman or child is rescuing me. I want the fittest and best person for the job.
MushroomBig1861 on
Fires, RTAs and natural disasters don’t care what sex or age you are, for this reason, the fitness test must not, either, the standard must be whatever is needed for the person to carry out their duties safely and effectively.
NotAnotherOne2024 on
Here’s hoping Cork City Council appeal the decision as it sets a terrible precedent for any unsuccessful individual to claim discrimination instead of taken personal responsibility for their own failure.
Smart_Highway_7011 on
Will this set precedent with other jobs like this?
I just dont get how the persons relative fitness in comparison to their age or gender matters in an area where we’re looking for greatest absolute fitness, seems like it could lead to some mad stuff for emergency services selection process.
Also hilarious to call a universal test with equal treatment for all applicants discriminatory.
Mynky on
FFS, they’ll be wanting a participation medal next.
svmk1987 on
I am not one of those folks who go around ranting about “DEI”, but surely for a firefighter job, you need a standard fitness test, and not give extra considerations for age and gender? If a fire is ravaging a building and people are trapped inside, they aren’t gonna suffocate more slowly if there’s an older firefighter coming to rescue him. This is one of the few jobs where you actually need to fire the most physically fit people.
coddlesangers on
Bit nuanced so therefore completely useless to have the chat on reddit, but if they for example do not test all firefighters yearly, this argument about her level is moot. There is every chance she’s fitter than some 50 year old lad who became a firefighter in 1995 and hasn’t been tested since
notaukrainian on
Running a bleep test isn’t really comparable of what it’s like to have to actually fight a fire or escue someone. Maybe using a test that is more reflective, and having one set pass mark for everyone, whatever their age/sex, is a better way of doing it.
If a woman in her forties gets a full time job in the Fire Brigade and goes menopausal along with Osteoporosis then all they will be fit for up until retirement age will be to roll out the cordon tapes
GreatEire on
We did it r/ireland!
Adventurous-Tax512 on
Maybe she should have trained more
creakingwall on
Why not just reduce the baseline for everyone? Otherwise you’re discriminating against men fmby giving them a harder test.
NoTrollGaming on
lol
MosmanWhale on
There is different levels to a beep test. It gets faster the higher the level you go up. If you can’t get past the first 2 levels though you should be worried about your general fitness
Jamie352 on
Does anyone know if you ever have to redo the test, or once you pass, is that it for life? While I don’t agree that there should be an easier test for women, you could easily have a situation where someone who passed the test in their 20s is less fit by the time they’re in their 40s than someone who can’t pass it in their 40s.
have-to on
What is a beep test though?
have-to on
Well that is an idiotic ruling.
Otherwise-Winner9643 on
As a woman, I think this is ridiculous. For jobs that genuinely require strength and speed, then the minimum bar needs to be reached, regardless of gender.
24 commenti
I mean if we want a representative and equal society the normalisation of the metric we use for hiring and testing have to take into account age and gender. It’s already a done thing across much of the public sector where fitness and strength is tested, if it takes an 8k payout of this manner to get the cork firefighters to implement better policies then that’s a solid result.
Well this comments section will be totally normal
Isn’t the whole point of a test – to discriminate based on score and no other factor?
Otherwise there’s no point in doing the test – everyone gets a pass.
A fair the test doesn’t care who you are or your age, only about the result you get. wtf is this ruling?
>without the application of a normative table that considers age and gender in determining the final score, was both directly discriminatory towards Foott and indirectly discriminatory against women,
This is obvious to anyone who has used or run these types of tests.
All these type of tables are easily available online.
What a mad ruling.
Minimum fitness standards are required regardless of any other factor.
I suppose they weren’t able to demonstrate why the beep test standards shouldn’t be adjusted for different groups to the court’s satisfaction. This is the spot where anti discrimination measures and job suitability intersecting. Can a woman who has the equivalent but not equal fitness as a man of the same age perform the role as well and if not, is it what you reckon or can you demonstrate it?
If im in a burning building i dont give a fook if a man woman or child is rescuing me. I want the fittest and best person for the job.
Fires, RTAs and natural disasters don’t care what sex or age you are, for this reason, the fitness test must not, either, the standard must be whatever is needed for the person to carry out their duties safely and effectively.
Here’s hoping Cork City Council appeal the decision as it sets a terrible precedent for any unsuccessful individual to claim discrimination instead of taken personal responsibility for their own failure.
Will this set precedent with other jobs like this?
I just dont get how the persons relative fitness in comparison to their age or gender matters in an area where we’re looking for greatest absolute fitness, seems like it could lead to some mad stuff for emergency services selection process.
Also hilarious to call a universal test with equal treatment for all applicants discriminatory.
FFS, they’ll be wanting a participation medal next.
I am not one of those folks who go around ranting about “DEI”, but surely for a firefighter job, you need a standard fitness test, and not give extra considerations for age and gender? If a fire is ravaging a building and people are trapped inside, they aren’t gonna suffocate more slowly if there’s an older firefighter coming to rescue him. This is one of the few jobs where you actually need to fire the most physically fit people.
Bit nuanced so therefore completely useless to have the chat on reddit, but if they for example do not test all firefighters yearly, this argument about her level is moot. There is every chance she’s fitter than some 50 year old lad who became a firefighter in 1995 and hasn’t been tested since
Running a bleep test isn’t really comparable of what it’s like to have to actually fight a fire or escue someone. Maybe using a test that is more reflective, and having one set pass mark for everyone, whatever their age/sex, is a better way of doing it.
I am just leaving this here.
[https://www.youtube.com/shorts/BZEB1rbm4q4](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/BZEB1rbm4q4)
If a woman in her forties gets a full time job in the Fire Brigade and goes menopausal along with Osteoporosis then all they will be fit for up until retirement age will be to roll out the cordon tapes
We did it r/ireland!
Maybe she should have trained more
Why not just reduce the baseline for everyone? Otherwise you’re discriminating against men fmby giving them a harder test.
lol
There is different levels to a beep test. It gets faster the higher the level you go up. If you can’t get past the first 2 levels though you should be worried about your general fitness
Does anyone know if you ever have to redo the test, or once you pass, is that it for life? While I don’t agree that there should be an easier test for women, you could easily have a situation where someone who passed the test in their 20s is less fit by the time they’re in their 40s than someone who can’t pass it in their 40s.
What is a beep test though?
Well that is an idiotic ruling.
As a woman, I think this is ridiculous. For jobs that genuinely require strength and speed, then the minimum bar needs to be reached, regardless of gender.