Guys please don’t reveal the truth else the far right will be angry
trmetroidmaniac on
even worse than the exploitation of the asylum system, is that we might be allowed to know about it
JoeyJoJoeJr_Shabadoo on
It does risk far right attacks and that is a problem.
BUT….was the story true or was it not? Because the BBC’s job is to report the news, not selectively feed or withhold us information based on how we’re likely to react to it, and not to play police.
If the Tommy Robinson brigade are likely to cause trouble then that’s for law enforcement to worry about, not the people working in media trying to honestly inform the populace.
Weak-Fly-6540 on
The National is an embarrassment. There is legitimate public interest in this story, and the police must investigate those law firms.
purpleplums901 on
Hmm. Something I’ve noticed is right wing people seem to believe fucking anything that confirms their biases, whereas left wing people try to justify ignoring stuff that doesn’t confirm theirs.
I know both sides bad isn’t exactly a valid position. But this does appear to be a legitimate news story and the defence seems to be ‘it’s not that big of a deal so why did they tell us!’
Brother-Executor on
Ah yes the truth and being frustrated at every turn that tax payer funds are wasted on fraud…soooo far right…
Anyales on
The issue is that people on the far right dont have the mental capacity to critically assess news. They are unable to differentiate between anecdotal data and qualitative data.
This means they misrepresent edge cases as being the normal case of events.
Lets use this story as an example. It is criminal that these few immigration lawyers are helping people to defraud the system. That does not mean that most or even many asylum seekers are defrauding the system.
>only around 2% of all asylum claims included sexual orientation as a reason for needing protection
So even if everyone lied that would still mean its a tiny proportion of asylum seekers.
Of course the BBC should cover this but they do have to account for the lower literacy skills of many readers. They have to be careful to make clear when something is endemic or anecdotal to help those readers.
endofdays2022 on
and the experts in the story are Rainbow Migration.
And what do they do ?
“**Legal advice:** We provide free and confidential specialist legal information and advice on how to apply for asylum on the basis of being LGBTQI+. We also provide legal advice and information to LGBTQI+ people who want to live in the UK with their partners.”
So a charity which provides legal advice to immigrants on how to apply for ayslum on the basis of being gay etc are complaining about a story that concerns legal advisers helping migrants pose as gay to get asylum,.
You’d think a charity like that would be very keen on preventing this route to asylum not being abused rather than trying to shut down stories about it.
I wonder why.
jayjones35 on
This is a fact so i condemn the appalling experts trying to hide corruption.
SidneySmut on
I’m not “far right” and I’m very concerned (but not surprised) that people have been playing the system.
The reason these “experts” seem to be triggered is because it makes the lgbqt lobby look crooked. The responses in the article are super-defensive and make me suspect they know exactly what’s been going on. Tip of the iceberg I’ll wager.
CarrotBusiness6255 on
I like how they can get grief for stuff other people have people have done , what a world.
Decard_Pain on
You can’t tell the truth, nor expose any of the corruption, that’s not allowed
yubnubster on
Are they supposed to bury the story and pretend it’s not happening, when the far right were already convinced it was anyway?
LargeLetter1 on
I am increasingly frustrated by the Left’s refusal to engage with difficult issues and would rather these things were never discussed rather than accept that in some cases benefits or asylum or what ever will be abused by a small % of people.
The Guardian is the only free left wing newspaper. It never covers crimes committed by asylum seekers. The Mail etc focus on them constantly.
So we are left with a completely divided nation where neither side even understands each other and one side is dismissed as “racist”.
Of course not all asylum seekers are rapists or lying about their status. Most have had a horrible time and deserve to be here. But it becomes harder and harder to defend if any abuse of the system is denounced as “far right”.
Dramasticlly on
My friend already said that she’ll vote for Greens, she’s on hard left and after watching the programme, she said “yh, they’re probably gaming the system, but only because they’re fleeing persecution in their countries for something else, there are no proper legal ways for those poor people to claim asylum” etc etc. it’s grim
Gentle_Snail on
Speaking as a Scot, the National is as close to lies as can legally be printed with out causing libel, so take all of their stories with a pinch of salt.
Neither_Problem_264 on
So this is just the BBCs version of the US Nick Shirley’s claims on Somali daycares being rife with fraud. Yay! Glad we’re following America’s hate train chooooo choooo
ValKilmerFromHeat on
They always do this “small %” shtick. Then it never gets fixed and the problem grows.
hihepo1 on
That damn BBC. Bringing facts to the public’s attention. Who do they think they are?
KeirStarmernator on
Wait until they find out about how loads of asylum seekers turn up to marches to get photographed so they can claim to be at risk if they go home for their ‘political activities’.
ash_ninetyone on
The primary responsibility to the news is reporting the truth. Knowing how widespread any of this is I’d argue is public interest. At the very least, this should be prefaced with the total numbers so there is perspective added of how many are exploiting the system out of how many total. The BBC reported a fact.
Hiding such a thing, once exposed, would lead those same far-right groups to accuse the BBC of bias, watering down facts, hiding uncomfortable truths, etc, etc. You could argue that is the same reason we also had grooming gang scandals. Putting feelings over facts.
No word in that article said that every asylum seeker is here illegally through loopholes, and not every legal advisor is acting illegally by using those loopholes.
The BBC can’t really win with that one.
What those groups do with the news is up to them. The far-right would totally distort and exaggerate these facts regardless of whether there is a figure there or not anyway.
But Labour, etc will be more than happy to point out this is a systemic issue caused by Tory mismanagement of the country, and of the immigration system anyway.
Fit-Mistake-4390 on
It’s not illegal to lie about being gay, no?
What sucks is that people already fleeing from war, famine, poverty, and poor living conditions have to further exaggerate their risk of persecution and harm to be let in. As if it’s not already enough.
Ah yeah but those WOKE human rights laws and immigration control not being tough enough, that’s the real problem /s
What a joke.
Modestpath99 on
Isn’t it a coincidence that the far right rises as inequality rises ?
ReligiousGhoul on
This insistence on keeping a cap on things for “the greater good” is haemorrhaging the left.
You can’t have your cake and eat it. You can’t demonise the far right when they point things out and deny it’s truth, only to come back tail between your legs and ask them not to run with it once it’s been confirmed.
The left need to get a grip on this, they think they’re clever and coy but they’re routinely getting caught short with this now.
Wiiboy95 on
the whole BBC article boils down to “a couple of guys said so” and the BBC presents it like a systemic issue. The people who consistently interact with this issue are saying the opposite and this whole comment section is like “look at the wokes who hate facts”
I genuinely despair for this country.
Rorydinho on
Pretty sure the BBC said that in 2023 asylum was granted to ~2500 people on the grounds of potential persecution due to sexual exploitation… so they explained that this is a relatively small number.
However, I believe ~30,000 asylum claims were approved in 2023, so that’s >8% for potential persecution due to sexual orientation which is a not insignificant number.
Also, there has been a massive increase in asylum claims in the past 2/3 years AND the government has stopped publishing numbers for the reasons behind asylum claims.
So, although we don’t know the actual numbers now, I’d suspect that the number of approved asylum claims for sexual orientation will be much greater than 2,500 per year now, and with this ‘false asylum claims’ industry becoming more mature, I’d guess that the 8% number will be greater too.
Also, the fundamental issue here isn’t the numbers, it’s the underlying system and exploitation of it. If you think the sexual orientation route is the only route being exploited, then you’re gravely mistaken.
26 commenti
Guys please don’t reveal the truth else the far right will be angry
even worse than the exploitation of the asylum system, is that we might be allowed to know about it
It does risk far right attacks and that is a problem.
BUT….was the story true or was it not? Because the BBC’s job is to report the news, not selectively feed or withhold us information based on how we’re likely to react to it, and not to play police.
If the Tommy Robinson brigade are likely to cause trouble then that’s for law enforcement to worry about, not the people working in media trying to honestly inform the populace.
The National is an embarrassment. There is legitimate public interest in this story, and the police must investigate those law firms.
Hmm. Something I’ve noticed is right wing people seem to believe fucking anything that confirms their biases, whereas left wing people try to justify ignoring stuff that doesn’t confirm theirs.
I know both sides bad isn’t exactly a valid position. But this does appear to be a legitimate news story and the defence seems to be ‘it’s not that big of a deal so why did they tell us!’
Ah yes the truth and being frustrated at every turn that tax payer funds are wasted on fraud…soooo far right…
The issue is that people on the far right dont have the mental capacity to critically assess news. They are unable to differentiate between anecdotal data and qualitative data.
This means they misrepresent edge cases as being the normal case of events.
Lets use this story as an example. It is criminal that these few immigration lawyers are helping people to defraud the system. That does not mean that most or even many asylum seekers are defrauding the system.
>only around 2% of all asylum claims included sexual orientation as a reason for needing protection
So even if everyone lied that would still mean its a tiny proportion of asylum seekers.
Of course the BBC should cover this but they do have to account for the lower literacy skills of many readers. They have to be careful to make clear when something is endemic or anecdotal to help those readers.
and the experts in the story are Rainbow Migration.
And what do they do ?
“**Legal advice:** We provide free and confidential specialist legal information and advice on how to apply for asylum on the basis of being LGBTQI+. We also provide legal advice and information to LGBTQI+ people who want to live in the UK with their partners.”
[https://www.rainbowmigration.org.uk/what-we-do/](https://www.rainbowmigration.org.uk/what-we-do/)
So a charity which provides legal advice to immigrants on how to apply for ayslum on the basis of being gay etc are complaining about a story that concerns legal advisers helping migrants pose as gay to get asylum,.
You’d think a charity like that would be very keen on preventing this route to asylum not being abused rather than trying to shut down stories about it.
I wonder why.
This is a fact so i condemn the appalling experts trying to hide corruption.
I’m not “far right” and I’m very concerned (but not surprised) that people have been playing the system.
The reason these “experts” seem to be triggered is because it makes the lgbqt lobby look crooked. The responses in the article are super-defensive and make me suspect they know exactly what’s been going on. Tip of the iceberg I’ll wager.
I like how they can get grief for stuff other people have people have done , what a world.
You can’t tell the truth, nor expose any of the corruption, that’s not allowed
Are they supposed to bury the story and pretend it’s not happening, when the far right were already convinced it was anyway?
I am increasingly frustrated by the Left’s refusal to engage with difficult issues and would rather these things were never discussed rather than accept that in some cases benefits or asylum or what ever will be abused by a small % of people.
The Guardian is the only free left wing newspaper. It never covers crimes committed by asylum seekers. The Mail etc focus on them constantly.
So we are left with a completely divided nation where neither side even understands each other and one side is dismissed as “racist”.
Of course not all asylum seekers are rapists or lying about their status. Most have had a horrible time and deserve to be here. But it becomes harder and harder to defend if any abuse of the system is denounced as “far right”.
My friend already said that she’ll vote for Greens, she’s on hard left and after watching the programme, she said “yh, they’re probably gaming the system, but only because they’re fleeing persecution in their countries for something else, there are no proper legal ways for those poor people to claim asylum” etc etc. it’s grim
Speaking as a Scot, the National is as close to lies as can legally be printed with out causing libel, so take all of their stories with a pinch of salt.
So this is just the BBCs version of the US Nick Shirley’s claims on Somali daycares being rife with fraud. Yay! Glad we’re following America’s hate train chooooo choooo
They always do this “small %” shtick. Then it never gets fixed and the problem grows.
That damn BBC. Bringing facts to the public’s attention. Who do they think they are?
Wait until they find out about how loads of asylum seekers turn up to marches to get photographed so they can claim to be at risk if they go home for their ‘political activities’.
The primary responsibility to the news is reporting the truth. Knowing how widespread any of this is I’d argue is public interest. At the very least, this should be prefaced with the total numbers so there is perspective added of how many are exploiting the system out of how many total. The BBC reported a fact.
Hiding such a thing, once exposed, would lead those same far-right groups to accuse the BBC of bias, watering down facts, hiding uncomfortable truths, etc, etc. You could argue that is the same reason we also had grooming gang scandals. Putting feelings over facts.
No word in that article said that every asylum seeker is here illegally through loopholes, and not every legal advisor is acting illegally by using those loopholes.
The BBC can’t really win with that one.
What those groups do with the news is up to them. The far-right would totally distort and exaggerate these facts regardless of whether there is a figure there or not anyway.
But Labour, etc will be more than happy to point out this is a systemic issue caused by Tory mismanagement of the country, and of the immigration system anyway.
It’s not illegal to lie about being gay, no?
What sucks is that people already fleeing from war, famine, poverty, and poor living conditions have to further exaggerate their risk of persecution and harm to be let in. As if it’s not already enough.
Ah yeah but those WOKE human rights laws and immigration control not being tough enough, that’s the real problem /s
What a joke.
Isn’t it a coincidence that the far right rises as inequality rises ?
This insistence on keeping a cap on things for “the greater good” is haemorrhaging the left.
You can’t have your cake and eat it. You can’t demonise the far right when they point things out and deny it’s truth, only to come back tail between your legs and ask them not to run with it once it’s been confirmed.
The left need to get a grip on this, they think they’re clever and coy but they’re routinely getting caught short with this now.
the whole BBC article boils down to “a couple of guys said so” and the BBC presents it like a systemic issue. The people who consistently interact with this issue are saying the opposite and this whole comment section is like “look at the wokes who hate facts”
I genuinely despair for this country.
Pretty sure the BBC said that in 2023 asylum was granted to ~2500 people on the grounds of potential persecution due to sexual exploitation… so they explained that this is a relatively small number.
However, I believe ~30,000 asylum claims were approved in 2023, so that’s >8% for potential persecution due to sexual orientation which is a not insignificant number.
Also, there has been a massive increase in asylum claims in the past 2/3 years AND the government has stopped publishing numbers for the reasons behind asylum claims.
So, although we don’t know the actual numbers now, I’d suspect that the number of approved asylum claims for sexual orientation will be much greater than 2,500 per year now, and with this ‘false asylum claims’ industry becoming more mature, I’d guess that the 8% number will be greater too.
Also, the fundamental issue here isn’t the numbers, it’s the underlying system and exploitation of it. If you think the sexual orientation route is the only route being exploited, then you’re gravely mistaken.