>The name of the Museum should reflect its whole history, and not only the evils of the Soviet communist regime,” the embassy wrote, **noting the future museum will include a specific area dedicated to victims of the Holocaust.**
I have no stake in this, but i assume that’s the reason why
ichbinverruckt on
Why France cares about a museum in Estonia? WTF!
NicoBator on
The title is misleading.
Article explicitly mentions victims of nazism, and not nazis that would be victims
Botanical_Director on
As a French I understand why it would make sense but I don’t uderstand why our **embassy** is working on this?
Edit: ah ok ->
>”The Patarei prison was the final arrival point of 300 of the Jewish deportees of Convoy 73, which left Drancy in France on May 15, 1944 to Lithuania and Estonia.
>”Among them were André and Jean Jacob, father and brother of Simone Veil, the first Chairwoman of the European Parliament (1979–1982) and Minister in France.
Still I think it should be more of a polite suggestion than a demand
Edit 2: u/ichbinverruckt I think it might help so you don’t have to read the whole article
fpohtmeh on
I propose to rename the COMMUNISM CRIMES in uppercase. That crimes aren’t represented enough in Europe, cuz they prefer to deal with the culture washing.
Estonia should consider opening a special area for Russian crimes soon
Holiday_Night_7541 on
Macron is secret ccp agent
Any-Original-6113 on
It seems to me there’s nothing wrong with the French request, and the names they proposed are quite suitable.
—-
From article
“…concerns the museum set to open in 2027 at the Patarei Sea Fortress.
…
The Patarei prison was the final arrival point of 300 of the Jewish deportees of Convoy 73, which left Drancy in France on May 15, 1944 to Lithuania and Estonia. They lived in inhumane conditions, were forced to perform slave labor, and some of them were executed,” the embassy stated.
Among them were André and Jean Jacob, father and brother of Simone Veil, the first Chairwoman of the European Parliament (1979–1982) and Minister in France. Only 22 returned.”
France proposed two alternative versions for the name: the International Museum for the Victims of Communism and Nazism or the International Museum for the Victims of Totalitarian Regimes.
“We do not deny its portrayal of Soviet terror, we abide by a simple rule: the imperative need to preserve the traces of the victims of alI terrors. The singularity of each memory has to be showed, in order not to be denied,” the letter read.”
Feeling-Medium-7856 on
French Jews were sent to this prison by the Nazi occupiers and were later exterminated. Some of you need to read the article before you comment.
No_Prompt_982 on
Big Yahu demanded that i guess XD i hope that Estonia will not obey over that request Soviet crimes are often overlooked by our society not everything needs to be about jews sorry not sorry
[deleted] on
[deleted]
Shiverproof22 on
Feels like classic case of good intention, clumsy execution. Maybe a simple subtitle like “Communist Crimes Museum, including Nazi Occupation” would solve most of this without rewriting local memory politics.
Long-Requirement8372 on
As a museum employee myself, I would not really consider it appropriate if a foreign government demanded our museum to be renamed. Museums’ job is to showcase real history, and they have a duty to truth and accuracy in their work. How they go about it is their own business, though. While valid, constructive criticism is always welcome (and may even improve museum exhibitions and content), foreign governments or other outside organizations should not be allowed to dictate to museums what they can say or what they can call themselves.
pothkan on
> However, she promised that Holocaust victims would not be forgotten, with a dedicated area set aside for them in the 5,000-square-meter museum.
Sounds adequate.
Better_than_GOT_S8 on
Living in a country that was a victim of communism, I don’t see why you can’t have a museum about communist crimes without also dragging nazi crimes in the mix.
Kurainuz on
Seeing the article and other comments, i get it.
The museum is already opening a Holocaust section and there were french people sent to camps in estonia.
ekstragooner-77 on
Western countries blaming eastern Europe for being nazi part 100. Meanwhile le pen and afd are strong. Literal nazis.
TripleVoid on
To which Estonia already responded “lol no”
TremendousVarmint on
Interesting article
GibDirBerlin on
So I’m just wondering: Does have Estonia another dedicated holocaust museum?
Because if it has, I’d say there shouldn’t be any need to include that part of history in the Communist Crimes museum, maybe a room about this specific part of the buildings history would suffice. And if it doesn’t, it’s probably about time to create one and I see nothing wrong to use a semi-permanent exhibition in the CCM as a temporary solution to show (among other things) the role this building played during the German Occupation.
pablo8itall on
Better clearer history, museums etc, is always a good thing. Everyone needs to know about what happened in the era. Lest we make the same mistakes again.
zweihundertwasser on
The weird thing about estonia is that they stil to this day commemorate ss criminals that took part in holocaust and erect monuments for them
HexisLeVrai on
Why does this sub get so defensive on this subject?
confidentlyfish on
Rightfully so.
Capital_Resident_872 on
Seems reasonable. Why should the name not reflect the entire history of the place? If anything it’s confusing to step into a Communist Crimes museum to then also see Holocaust victims. The prison evidently housed both Holocaust victims and victims of the Soviets, why should one be considered more important than the other? Would be a different story if it was a museum on “neutral ground”.
casual_redditor69 on
Yes it should absolutely include both Nazis and the Soviets. They both committed heinous acts of murder in Patarei prison, and both should be remembered.
planarascendance on
what about France builds a French Revolution and Republic Crimes museum first?
Sheridan-Bouquet on
frogs, mind your own business.
josko7452 on
Once French stop oppressing minority languages and allow public schools in minority languages such as Breton language as all other EU countries do (for their respective minorities) they can start asking such things.
28 commenti
>The name of the Museum should reflect its whole history, and not only the evils of the Soviet communist regime,” the embassy wrote, **noting the future museum will include a specific area dedicated to victims of the Holocaust.**
I have no stake in this, but i assume that’s the reason why
Why France cares about a museum in Estonia? WTF!
The title is misleading.
Article explicitly mentions victims of nazism, and not nazis that would be victims
As a French I understand why it would make sense but I don’t uderstand why our **embassy** is working on this?
Edit: ah ok ->
>”The Patarei prison was the final arrival point of 300 of the Jewish deportees of Convoy 73, which left Drancy in France on May 15, 1944 to Lithuania and Estonia.
>”Among them were André and Jean Jacob, father and brother of Simone Veil, the first Chairwoman of the European Parliament (1979–1982) and Minister in France.
Still I think it should be more of a polite suggestion than a demand
Edit 2: u/ichbinverruckt I think it might help so you don’t have to read the whole article
I propose to rename the COMMUNISM CRIMES in uppercase. That crimes aren’t represented enough in Europe, cuz they prefer to deal with the culture washing.
Estonia should consider opening a special area for Russian crimes soon
Macron is secret ccp agent
It seems to me there’s nothing wrong with the French request, and the names they proposed are quite suitable.
—-
From article
“…concerns the museum set to open in 2027 at the Patarei Sea Fortress.
…
The Patarei prison was the final arrival point of 300 of the Jewish deportees of Convoy 73, which left Drancy in France on May 15, 1944 to Lithuania and Estonia. They lived in inhumane conditions, were forced to perform slave labor, and some of them were executed,” the embassy stated.
Among them were André and Jean Jacob, father and brother of Simone Veil, the first Chairwoman of the European Parliament (1979–1982) and Minister in France. Only 22 returned.”
France proposed two alternative versions for the name: the International Museum for the Victims of Communism and Nazism or the International Museum for the Victims of Totalitarian Regimes.
“We do not deny its portrayal of Soviet terror, we abide by a simple rule: the imperative need to preserve the traces of the victims of alI terrors. The singularity of each memory has to be showed, in order not to be denied,” the letter read.”
French Jews were sent to this prison by the Nazi occupiers and were later exterminated. Some of you need to read the article before you comment.
Big Yahu demanded that i guess XD i hope that Estonia will not obey over that request Soviet crimes are often overlooked by our society not everything needs to be about jews sorry not sorry
[deleted]
Feels like classic case of good intention, clumsy execution. Maybe a simple subtitle like “Communist Crimes Museum, including Nazi Occupation” would solve most of this without rewriting local memory politics.
As a museum employee myself, I would not really consider it appropriate if a foreign government demanded our museum to be renamed. Museums’ job is to showcase real history, and they have a duty to truth and accuracy in their work. How they go about it is their own business, though. While valid, constructive criticism is always welcome (and may even improve museum exhibitions and content), foreign governments or other outside organizations should not be allowed to dictate to museums what they can say or what they can call themselves.
> However, she promised that Holocaust victims would not be forgotten, with a dedicated area set aside for them in the 5,000-square-meter museum.
Sounds adequate.
Living in a country that was a victim of communism, I don’t see why you can’t have a museum about communist crimes without also dragging nazi crimes in the mix.
Seeing the article and other comments, i get it.
The museum is already opening a Holocaust section and there were french people sent to camps in estonia.
Western countries blaming eastern Europe for being nazi part 100. Meanwhile le pen and afd are strong. Literal nazis.
To which Estonia already responded “lol no”
Interesting article
So I’m just wondering: Does have Estonia another dedicated holocaust museum?
Because if it has, I’d say there shouldn’t be any need to include that part of history in the Communist Crimes museum, maybe a room about this specific part of the buildings history would suffice. And if it doesn’t, it’s probably about time to create one and I see nothing wrong to use a semi-permanent exhibition in the CCM as a temporary solution to show (among other things) the role this building played during the German Occupation.
Better clearer history, museums etc, is always a good thing. Everyone needs to know about what happened in the era. Lest we make the same mistakes again.
The weird thing about estonia is that they stil to this day commemorate ss criminals that took part in holocaust and erect monuments for them
Why does this sub get so defensive on this subject?
Rightfully so.
Seems reasonable. Why should the name not reflect the entire history of the place? If anything it’s confusing to step into a Communist Crimes museum to then also see Holocaust victims. The prison evidently housed both Holocaust victims and victims of the Soviets, why should one be considered more important than the other? Would be a different story if it was a museum on “neutral ground”.
Yes it should absolutely include both Nazis and the Soviets. They both committed heinous acts of murder in Patarei prison, and both should be remembered.
what about France builds a French Revolution and Republic Crimes museum first?
frogs, mind your own business.
Once French stop oppressing minority languages and allow public schools in minority languages such as Breton language as all other EU countries do (for their respective minorities) they can start asking such things.