Vengo dalla Svezia e permettiamo al Movimento di Resistenza Nordica (un’organizzazione apertamente neonazista) di operare legalmente. Ma in Polonia sarebbero vietati perché la vostra Costituzione lo vieta "ideologie totalitarie" come il neonazismo. Ciò è comprensibile data la tua storia sia con il nazismo che con il comunismo, ma ci sono polacchi che ritengono che ciò violi la libertà di parola e la libertà di associazione?
Per favore, non interpretarlo come se stessi cercando di convincerti quale sistema è migliore. Questa è solo una domanda onesta da parte di uno straniero curioso.
https://i.redd.it/pauhy1e6dxyg1.jpeg
di Margaretthatchervore
27 commenti
Good. Freedom of speech should never threaten freedom of existence.
You can talk what you want, but organisation like political party is more than freedom of speach.
What the fuck Sweden
What is illegal is the promotion of those ideologies.
I approve this. Some things used their chances to be still in consideration. All those ideologies of which promotion is forbidden already showed they don’t belong in the free world where we want stuff like human rights to be respected.
Love it. When I see nazis openly marching with swastikas in US cities I’m glad I live in a real civilized place and not some lawless shithole.
No tolerance for intolerance
It is my honest opinion free speech ends when you start genuinely advocating for extermination or oppression of minorities of any kind
Yeah, no shit it’s banned in Poland, because unlike you Swedes, we have bad history with those guys (1939-1945)
Polska gurom!
If you give freedom of speech to people whose ideology directly postulates removal of even more fundamental freedoms of certain groups of people, you’re essentially making democracy suicidal.
It’s like with free market, it’s a good general principle, but it needs to have checks and balances or else it ends up not being free at all.
A popular argument is the tolerance paradox. You can google it up. It says that intolerance for certain ideologies is necessary for a healthy democracy to exist firm.
We live in a society that evolves driven by views in democracy, but certain ideologies are clear cancer. We only Van extreme cases where it’s certain the destruction of said ideologies. Especially or primarily if it’s in some form the result of their goals.
“are there Poles who feel this violates free speech and freedom of association?”
Yes, without any doubt.
Are they correct?
No, without any doubt.
Our constitution gives you right to associate, but it is not absolute right, you cannot form organizations that are in opposition to democratic values, and all nazi organizations are, be default, totalitarian and one of their fundamental values is discrimination. You have to understand, freedom of the single man ends where it begins to constitute danger for other people or democratic order.
Disrimination based on color of the skin, or nationality (or any other thing like eg. religion) is illegal and in stark oposition to core values of democracy, therefore any organization that promotes theses values cannot be allowed to exist in democratic society.
Very good. Communism and nazism should be banned.
1 in 5 Poles died during a war started by the Nazis. This isn’t about right to free speech or freedom of association, this is about 6 million dead people.
Imagine the whole Stockholm metropolitan area GONE. All buildings destroyed, all people dead.
On the other side the Communists executed Polish officers and other educated people in Katyń. 20k of the most educated people killed just so that the nation would be weaker.
For Swedes those are just idealogies far away, for Poles those are people who tried to erase us from existence.
Would you let the cancer cells develop freely in the name of free organism?
I thought Nordic Resistance was a workout exercise just like nordic walking…
In reality ideologies and other hate speech-esque “crimes” are not prosecuted in Poland. Like in every independence march there’s a small but visible group of people who carry hate symbols and police won’t do anything to them. If you go and report to the police or prosecution that you’ve witnessed hate crime (especially online), it will be immediately dropped if they accept it. These kinds of crimes are only persecuted with notorious offenders, especially if they have other offences already and you want to barrage them with accusations.
I agree. There’s no place for fascists and communists in our politics which already is fucked beyond repair. Also Konfederacja Korony Polskiej should be banned as well
Totalitarian regimes violate my freedom to a lot of things, so it’s a fair trade
“violates free speech and freedom of association”
Every mature society should understand, that freedom does not mean that one can do anything.
We do not allow murder or rape, although some would probably argue that this restricts “freedom” of some individuals (I saw such people on the internet, so this is not some theoretical argument). This is because we understand that such actions collide with the freedom of the victims.
In the same way we should not allow any ideology, which openly or covertly speaks about violating rights of some groups of people.
Good. We should also ban billionaires encouraging other rich people to abuse their employees by forcing them to work inhumane hours.
Fuck Nazis. You are Nazi – you actually breaking a law and should be in jail and re-educated and brought back to the society.
The difference between Sweden and Poland is. Your nazi are cos-players. We had real Nazis – they killed 30% of society
I don’t think people should have a right to be a Nazi.
Fuck Nazis. Plain and simple. Fuck Nazis.
Paradox of free speech is that sometimes we have to restrict it in order to stop people who want to take it away from everyone else.
It seems to me that the world has suddenly adopted some absurd definition of freedom of speech. Freedom of speech does not mean that you can say absolutely anything – implying: without any consequences. As is always the case, the freedom of one person or group ends where the freedom of another begins. The essence of freedom of speech has always been not to blabber on about anything without a care in the world, but the ability to criticise those in power or to practise the profession of journalism, whose task is to write about often uncomfortable topics, without fear of losing one’s freedom or life for the act itself.
Totalitarian ideologies, by their very nature, strip people of their freedom and base their power on crime. Do we really want it to be acceptable to propagate them, or, for example, to incite the killing of specific groups of people or the sexual abuse of children? Let’s get a grip. That is what the law is for: to regulate the functioning of societies. If killing is prohibited in a completely logical and accepted manner, I see absolutely no reason why the promotion of criminal ideologies should be legal.
This is a silly question, a neo-nazi is inherently by the real lived history a threat to a Polish person. When I see a neo nazi I see a person working towards the death of me and my loved ones and this is true for 99% of people living here. This is why banning it is popular and it will stay banned for as long as people remember.
While I agree with most comments here, it should be noted that it’s not as simple as “organisations like this are banned/illegal in poland”. There are similar ogranisations operating openly and legally in Poland. For instance you can look up ONR – bit different in details, but general vibe, far-right nationalist anti-immigrant sentiment, and para-militaristic white shirt manly aesthetic maches very closely, even including green totally-not-swastika-inspired flags.