>German investigators, in the meantime, have ruled out a so-called false flag operation by the Russians. They say they are certain that the former commander-in-chief of the Ukrainian armed forces, Valery Zaluzhny, gave the order for the attack.
“They are certain” is not a proof.
kazys1997 on
So what? No one cares about this investigation anymore except literally the Germans. If Poland and Ukraine are indeed behind the sabotage, can we blame them? Germany bet it’s entire future on Nord Stream 2, signing it just months after Crimea was annexed and Russia launched an incursion into East Ukraine. Germany dismissed the concerns of the Eastern Europeans (let’s be real, many senior German politicians still have this untermensch mentality when it comes to their Eastern neighbours) as nothing more than just Russophobia while at the same time Russia preached its true intentions and German businesses, political, cultural and intelligence circles were all penetrated by Russian intelligence who by 2022 had their tentacles everywhere. At the same time, Germany preached that it owes Russia Nord Stream 2 and good relations because of the crimes of WW2 (while of course ignoring the fact that the majority of Nazi crimes were committed in modern day Baltics, Poland, Belarus and Ukraine, what does German owe these people? Nothing according to the establishment). It allowed itself to be deceived thinking you can tame the revisionist imperialist beast that is Russia with simply better economic integration and cooperation.
If Poland and Ukraine are behind it, good. It should be Germany who are on their knees begging forgiveness from Eastern Europeans.
also lol in hindsight, what sabotaging Nord Stream 2 has done in terms of shifting the EU’s energy supply in such a short space of time is truly remarkable and one for the history books. We are in a far better place now – every single one of us in Europe – now that that pipeline is bust.
Downtown-Theme-3981 on
As far as i know, everything was done “by the book” in terms of times and procedures, and there was no breach of them. Sure, they were on longer side, but not breached. So whats the problem? Bureocracy happens.
Same with recording, there are official procedures, and when they are done, it will be shared.
By the way, good that he made it outside, would be shame to see good guy arrested :
franbatista123 on
You can’t help but laugh at the old statements of NATO members and NATO itself after the sabotage of Nordstream, implying that there would be a formal response once it was known who carried it out.
notveryamused_ on
I’m very much pro close cooperation and friendship between Poland and Germany, I seriously believe that strong, safe and stable Europe is impossible without it. And I’m one of those Poles who have some ties to Germany and in general a very positive opinion of Germans that I was happy to meet. …And I’m also very happy Nord Stream was blown up: it was only symbolic :D, but really nice. Trust works both ways guys.
Divinate_ME on
They’d never, and even if they did, Germany probably deserved it.
OkKnowledge2064 on
I mean no shit
HelpfulYoghurt on
I was never fan of Nord Stream 2, and it is a good thing that it does not function, but it is still fucked up to just carry out sabotage on NATO member critical infrastructure – just because you dont like it, or it is not in your national interest
Whoever was behind it, need to be held accountable, because this is exactly how Russia solves their problems, not a civilized country or an ally
Stabile_Feldmaus on
I wonder how Poland would have reacted if Ukraine had destroyed the Yamal or Druzhba pipeline and it turned out that Germany sabotaged Polish investigations. Germany is mostly sweeping all of this under the carpet for the sake of EU-Ukrainian unity, a unity which Poland and Ukraine have endangered with such actions.
Redd868 on
We got to remember that originally, we were being told that Russia, who controlled the spigot was the culprit that blew up the pipeline.
What I see now is these new narratives designed to obfuscate, turning this into a *dog chasing its tail* whodunit.
What I observed was, in the fall of 2022, Scholz was dealing with protests to turn the gas back on, as no one knew it was going to be a mild winter. The blowing up of the pipeline solved Scholz’s political problem. I don’t think for a second that the pipeline was blown up without German government knowledge and buy-in.
pinsofstanley on
Fuck the germans
GuideMwit on
It felt hurt being stabbed in the back, isn’t it?
OkKnowledge2064 on
>A high-ranking officer who lives in a major Ukrainian city and is alleged to have been involved in the pipeline attack said: “It’s ridiculous to believe that we did it, but if Ukraine was behind the attack, Germany should stop the investigation, because for Kyiv it was a legitimate military target.”
this has to be a meme right
Jealous-Detail-5162 on
I hope the easterners that are celebrating this terrorist attack aren’t selective about violations of european sovereingty. You’re either for a self-reliable Europe or you’re addicted to being under a foreign boot.
We’re dangerously close to opening up a Pandora’s Box of sorts here, because this is only further alienating pro-western and pro-nato/eu sentiments inside the powerhouse that is Germany. As european history has shown, arrogance can turn into despair more often that not, and not only for the germans, but to all those involved as well.
If things continue down this path of keeping german self-determination as a joke, then the only “shame” germans ought to feel is the shame of still hosting foreign military bases on their soil.
YungLandi on
‚August Hanning, the former head of Germany’s Federal Intelligence Service, or BND, told WELT AM SONNTAG.‘ — Hanning, according to Wikipedia, quit working for the BND 19 years ago.
SunEater888 on
Kick Poland out of the EU and NATO then 😀
silver2006 on
We need to rebuild Nord Stream 2, connect a huge sewer line from Europe’s side and start pumping all the shit to Russia
18 commenti
[deleted]
>German investigators, in the meantime, have ruled out a so-called false flag operation by the Russians. They say they are certain that the former commander-in-chief of the Ukrainian armed forces, Valery Zaluzhny, gave the order for the attack.
“They are certain” is not a proof.
So what? No one cares about this investigation anymore except literally the Germans. If Poland and Ukraine are indeed behind the sabotage, can we blame them? Germany bet it’s entire future on Nord Stream 2, signing it just months after Crimea was annexed and Russia launched an incursion into East Ukraine. Germany dismissed the concerns of the Eastern Europeans (let’s be real, many senior German politicians still have this untermensch mentality when it comes to their Eastern neighbours) as nothing more than just Russophobia while at the same time Russia preached its true intentions and German businesses, political, cultural and intelligence circles were all penetrated by Russian intelligence who by 2022 had their tentacles everywhere. At the same time, Germany preached that it owes Russia Nord Stream 2 and good relations because of the crimes of WW2 (while of course ignoring the fact that the majority of Nazi crimes were committed in modern day Baltics, Poland, Belarus and Ukraine, what does German owe these people? Nothing according to the establishment). It allowed itself to be deceived thinking you can tame the revisionist imperialist beast that is Russia with simply better economic integration and cooperation.
If Poland and Ukraine are behind it, good. It should be Germany who are on their knees begging forgiveness from Eastern Europeans.
also lol in hindsight, what sabotaging Nord Stream 2 has done in terms of shifting the EU’s energy supply in such a short space of time is truly remarkable and one for the history books. We are in a far better place now – every single one of us in Europe – now that that pipeline is bust.
As far as i know, everything was done “by the book” in terms of times and procedures, and there was no breach of them. Sure, they were on longer side, but not breached. So whats the problem? Bureocracy happens.
Same with recording, there are official procedures, and when they are done, it will be shared.
By the way, good that he made it outside, would be shame to see good guy arrested :
You can’t help but laugh at the old statements of NATO members and NATO itself after the sabotage of Nordstream, implying that there would be a formal response once it was known who carried it out.
I’m very much pro close cooperation and friendship between Poland and Germany, I seriously believe that strong, safe and stable Europe is impossible without it. And I’m one of those Poles who have some ties to Germany and in general a very positive opinion of Germans that I was happy to meet. …And I’m also very happy Nord Stream was blown up: it was only symbolic :D, but really nice. Trust works both ways guys.
They’d never, and even if they did, Germany probably deserved it.
I mean no shit
I was never fan of Nord Stream 2, and it is a good thing that it does not function, but it is still fucked up to just carry out sabotage on NATO member critical infrastructure – just because you dont like it, or it is not in your national interest
Whoever was behind it, need to be held accountable, because this is exactly how Russia solves their problems, not a civilized country or an ally
I wonder how Poland would have reacted if Ukraine had destroyed the Yamal or Druzhba pipeline and it turned out that Germany sabotaged Polish investigations. Germany is mostly sweeping all of this under the carpet for the sake of EU-Ukrainian unity, a unity which Poland and Ukraine have endangered with such actions.
We got to remember that originally, we were being told that Russia, who controlled the spigot was the culprit that blew up the pipeline.
What I see now is these new narratives designed to obfuscate, turning this into a *dog chasing its tail* whodunit.
What I observed was, in the fall of 2022, Scholz was dealing with protests to turn the gas back on, as no one knew it was going to be a mild winter. The blowing up of the pipeline solved Scholz’s political problem. I don’t think for a second that the pipeline was blown up without German government knowledge and buy-in.
Fuck the germans
It felt hurt being stabbed in the back, isn’t it?
>A high-ranking officer who lives in a major Ukrainian city and is alleged to have been involved in the pipeline attack said: “It’s ridiculous to believe that we did it, but if Ukraine was behind the attack, Germany should stop the investigation, because for Kyiv it was a legitimate military target.”
this has to be a meme right
I hope the easterners that are celebrating this terrorist attack aren’t selective about violations of european sovereingty. You’re either for a self-reliable Europe or you’re addicted to being under a foreign boot.
We’re dangerously close to opening up a Pandora’s Box of sorts here, because this is only further alienating pro-western and pro-nato/eu sentiments inside the powerhouse that is Germany. As european history has shown, arrogance can turn into despair more often that not, and not only for the germans, but to all those involved as well.
If things continue down this path of keeping german self-determination as a joke, then the only “shame” germans ought to feel is the shame of still hosting foreign military bases on their soil.
‚August Hanning, the former head of Germany’s Federal Intelligence Service, or BND, told WELT AM SONNTAG.‘ — Hanning, according to Wikipedia, quit working for the BND 19 years ago.
Kick Poland out of the EU and NATO then 😀
We need to rebuild Nord Stream 2, connect a huge sewer line from Europe’s side and start pumping all the shit to Russia