Ok, so che è wiki e non è il più accurato, ma vivendo qui e visitando altri paesi penso che questa sia una buona idea:
Sono stato in Germania alcune volte quest’anno e ho notato che le loro città hanno molti più appartamenti e i loro condomini sono più grandi e più alti. (Ok sì, lo so, ovviamente sono città più grandi, ma comunque non penso che abbiamo così tanti appartamenti qui)
Quindi, per curiosità, chiedo: sei d’accordo sul fatto che l’Irlanda dovrebbe costruire più appartamenti piuttosto che case bifamiliari/completamente indipendenti come altri paesi dell’UE (alti piani) o pensi che gli irlandesi abbiano una preferenza maggiore per una casa e un giardino? Ho un amico tedesco che mi ha detto che puoi affittare un giardino se vivi in un appartamento in città più lontano se vuoi un giardino che è una bella idea, a dire il vero
Ovviamente prima che qualcuno lo dica sì, so che dobbiamo costruire di più in generale, lo chiedo solo per interesse perché sembra che qui preferiamo le case agli appartamenti
https://i.redd.it/blemvcfmxh5e1.jpeg
di throwaway178480
21 commenti
Another thing is that the percentages for each country don’t add up to 100!
Ireland: 40+55+4=99
Poland: 50+5+55=110
Romania: 65+3+38=106
Estonia: 34+4+69=107
???
Plenty would kill for an apartment.
But a mix of horrid nimbyism and people who value their house price over others having any home, coupled with the scars of Ballymun, meaning a lot of fucks have a habit of fighting tooth and nail against apartments.
The average Irish will take 30 more years to understand the concept of apartments. Take a seat while you wait
> Do you agree that Ireland should build more apartments rather than semi/fully detached housing like other eu countries
We are doing that. We have massively stepped up apartment building in recent years. Certainly withing the M50 and at key transport hubs we’re not building very many houses.
A lot of people still want a garden, but our planning strategy has definitely shifted massively.
The lack of apartments is a major problem
In Ireland, however it is unlikely to change in the near future due the fact it is pretty much economically unviable to build apartments in Ireland due to our high input costs, planning regulations and safety standards. Building a high number of apartments for rent in and around our city centres should be core to any housing strategy. This would bring a lot of students and young professionals who would prefer to live close to the city centre and dont have a need for a 3 bed semi out of the suburbs and free up housing stock for families.
We have come to a point where we continue to build endless urban sprawl because people want a house so they can have a garden, but these gardens are now not much bigger than a balcony.
It no longer makes any sense to build the amount of houses we do. Yes, we still need to build houses. But we need many more apartments. So much more. We need to build up. A vertical commute is far better for quality of life than an unnecessarily long horizontal commute.
It is ridiculous in this day and age that Ireland still has a reluctance to build apartments
If the government’s plan is to house every single person/refugee who applied for a social house into semi d/terrace house, Dublin will expand all the way to Mullingar. The point is that apartments will be necessary to accommodate population growth.
I lived in a flat for a year in my early 20s, it was good fun at that age, but I’d never do it long term.
Unfortunately apartments make some Irish people think of Ballymun or Priory Hall so there’s a significant bad reputation that needs to be combatted. There’s also a NIMBY thing where they object to anything that isn’t a family home when actually there’s a huge absence of smaller properties to suit a single person or couple that could be solved by more apartments being available.
It’s 10.2% according to 2023 stats, lowest in Europe for which numbers are available – [https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/ilc_lvho01__custom_12697868/bookmark/table?lang=en&bookmarkId=f02b1ce6-d1ab-4138-ac5a-de96fb4b0224](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/ilc_lvho01__custom_12697868/bookmark/table?lang=en&bookmarkId=f02b1ce6-d1ab-4138-ac5a-de96fb4b0224)
Doesn’t say whether or not the houses are detached.
Its a cultural thing. Germans for example have lived in rented apartments for a long long time. People there mihgt live in the same apartment for decades. They used to be reasonably priced too and biggish and w basements.
There are even mutuals as in no profit apartment holdings and such. And such concepts go back a long way too.
But we’re becoming all the same now. Everything snapped up by investment companies everything being turned into a commodity. Extract as much as possible for what ultimate purpose I dont know. Germans pay thousands for their apartments too now.
Its a timebomb but our elected representatives facilitate this and want it that way it seems. Eeverything must be private and commidity and profit über alles. Big bucks quickly and to hell with tomorrow, tomorrow we’ll fk up something else. The economy must grow after all. yay.
Rest assured if we buitl a ton of apartments it wouldnt lead to a social ‘affordable’ paradise either just to a different sort of sh1tshow.
Most European countries also treat rent very differently. Many apartments are completely unfurnished but you can get a 20 year lease. People take over existing leases when they move and move everything like kitchen appliances etc. It’s a completely different culture. More people would rent if they knew their rent was essentially fixed for the rest of their lives.
Edited for typos
There is a cultural rejection of apartments in Ireland. Many people view them as unsuitable for families. Instead everyone wants at least a 3 bed semi with a garden.
In the countryside it’s more extreme. People who work in a large towns and have children who go to school in the town want to move outside of the town to a fully detached house with land.
Then these people complain about the traffic and lack of public transport…
I just checked the CSO website (which should be the first port of call for anything that looks as suspicious as this). Something like 16% of the population live in apartments – that’s one in six, rather than the one in 25 claimed in the table. That feels closer to accurate.
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp1hii/cp1hii/od/#:~:text=Apartments%2C%20which%20have%20increased%20in,11.1%20per%20cent%20in%202011.
When the government banned bedsits 20years ago, it took a way huge portion of basic available properties to rent. I’m of the firm belief that the standards we build to now, with all of the low carbon materials, it’s set the bar massively high for those looking for a simple apartment home.
Nothing ever replaced bedsits, this has had a huge impact on supply. The average 20-something now has to shell out massive cash just to share an apartment that are all built to massive specs.
I spent a couple of weeks in Athens recently while working. One thing I really noticed was how solid the flat was. Solid walls, proper secure door at the entrance. It felt like the apartment next door could burn down and the one we were in wouldn’t be affected. Any flats I’ve been in Ireland just aren’t built like that. And with the owning a house culture in Ireland, combined with the flats being meh, it’s v hard to change that. I do think medium density accommodation could really put a dent in the housing crisis. But if we want to follow the mainland Europe model, we need to change a lot.
I do not think there is awareness in Ireland that apartments may be:
1. Big, like 200 sq m or more, with 6 bedrooms.
3. For sale.
Only 1 or 2 bedroom apartments are built, and only to rent, for young people, before they start a family. Children living in an apartment is unthinkable in Ireland, while it is the most common thing in other countries.
In a big block, say 100+ apartments, it is economically not too expensive to have a concierge 24/7, which is quite nice for the many functions they may perform.
Not to mention the issues with houses: 360º risk of water infiltration, home invasions, etc.
And of course, building infrastructure is easier with greater density. The [15-minute city](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/15-minute_city) idea is completely impossible in Ireland.
In terms of real estate culture, Ireland is closer to the US than to other European countries.
Ballymun put a sour taste in the entire countries mouth.
We also have bullshit regs in relation to apartments. Up until recently every apartment required a car parking space, minimum size was enormous, energy rating was insane, no north facing apartments etc etc.. It was cheaper to build a house.
4% flats is unsurprising.