“Il concetto del XIX secolo dello stato nazionale non ci porterà mai attraverso la soglia del 21 ° secolo [..] Abbiamo bisogno di un’Europa forte se non vogliamo diventare il gioco della politica mondiale ” – Helmut Kohl
https://v.redd.it/v3lnanbrmphe1
di EUstrongerthanUS
14 commenti
[source](https://youtube.com/watch?v=Oy4LAVycxro)
We can have both, a strong united Europe and a concept and identity of nation states.
It’s a major ask that Europe becomes a state of many nations where the collective rights of nations are to be abolished in favour of individual rights. It has far reaching consequences for Europe’s influence in an international system that is still designed for the 19th century concept of nation states.
I’m all for integration, but the member states must remain sovereign in international relations.
Look what happened to the United America. One man is now rummaging through government services and shutting them down at will while looting data like personal information of US citizens or even US nuclear weapons information. Imagine Hungary but it’s the whole European Union.
There will never be the United States of Europe, ever.
How are the interests of Hungary in line with Portugal’s? Why would Spaniard soldiers want to die for Poland? You need some kind of common value to bring everyone under a single military flag. You can’t do it through nationalism because as you’ve said EU is a (pseudo) confederacy and national identity is still largely prominent. You can’t do it through “Europeanism” because it’s already a concept facing serious skepticism across all EU member states. Liberalism and freedom aren’t real concepts we’ll all die fighting for. That leaves religion. You can potentially have a Christian nationalism type of political discourse soar across Europe and end up with a Crusader army. Good luck remaining a secular union if that happens.
We need something that unites us and the more we remove our history and past the less will unite us. I agree 19th century nationalism was idiotic but we need something *real* to believe in and not just the latest definition of freedom from a ThinkTank in DC. What is Europe? Where does it end? We don’t even have these questions answered yet, that are the foundation of any nation.
But seems like Europeans prefer to believe the comfort of the lies of the nationalists. So they’d just choose what master to serve: here in Italy looks like it’ll be Trump, Eastern Europeans will fall into Putin’s lap and China will look from distance and smile.
They don’t make politicians like that anymore. Time to change it!
Fuck this Federalisation brain rot.
The 2008 recession told me everything I needed to know about the people who run the EU commission. Unsecured bond holders in Europe were bailed out and the bill was levelled at the Irish people. People who never even had a loan in their name are now handing over money to someone who took a risk, was fully aware of that risk and chose to do it anyway.
You’ll never convince me that my interests are served better by a person who I didn’t vote for, never met and has never even lived in my country.
EU has a long way to go to instill any sort of confidence that it’s primary interest is the well being of it’s citizens and not just the GDP line on the graph or lining the pockets of whoever is closest to their ear.
Well, he was right – Europe is a ragdoll for actual global powers.
It will either profoundly embrace convergence or learn how it was to be African colonies in the days of the European heyday.
There are no alternatives.
There’s room in the world for both, strong nation states can cooperate just fine. Please don’t turn us into USA 2.0, were seeing in real time how that is working out.
Has anyone read the old nazi plan for a “united europe” just like they are asking for now?
Think they called it “The New Order of Europe”.
One thing that sucks about not having the people ruling you anywhere near is that the workers are then left with no option to protest them directly, just ask americans living far from the capital
Unite europe and let shit sort itself out. If people are so desperate for national identities they will prevail as (then) regional identities. If they disappear, they weren’t all that important to begin with.
On a smaller scale you have Belgium with it’s French and Dutch speaking parts as well as the German area near Aachen, and the United Kingdom with it’s 4 component countries. It can work, as long as people want it to work.
Maybe do it in steps?
Like first give the Rhineland, Hessen and Westfalen to France.
Baden and Bavaria join with Austria and switzerland to form a union.
All of old East Germany goes to Poland.
Schleswig Holstein becomes Denmark.
Lower saxony joins the Netherlands and Belgium.
That’s one Nation less standing in the way of a true United Europe.
Maybe every 50 years we can split one Nation up among neighbouring countries/unions until just one big United Europe remains. But absolutely Germany first.
You can just form local identities in the new countries if it’s important or else it doesnt matter anyway.