Zelensky: noi “non ci volevamo in NATO” anche prima di Trump
https://thehill.com/policy/international/5145670-zelensky-us-nato-trump-vance-munich/
di dazzypowpow
Zelensky: noi “non ci volevamo in NATO” anche prima di Trump
https://thehill.com/policy/international/5145670-zelensky-us-nato-trump-vance-munich/
di dazzypowpow
38 commenti
To be fair, neither did EU officials want you in the EU; they only spoke about it for their own public image.
Sad but true.
The US invited Ukraine into NATO in 2008? A lot of European countries at that time opposed Ukraine’s entry too like France and Germany. Heck, even Ukrainians at that time didn’t want to be in NATO.
Well… the USA has no value to NATO anymore, since they would not honor article 5 in any case. So we can just as well switch them for Ukraine.
Win – win -win -win:
* Russia: gets rid of USA from NATO
* USA: they want to leave NATO anyway
* Ukraine: gets protection from NATO
* NATO countries: get the most experienced military from Ukraine
I’m sorry I might be misremembering, didn’t Bush push for a NATO membership plan for Ukraine and Georgia?
From the article: “If you’re running in fear of your own voters, there’s nothing America can do for you,” the vice president said in his speech.”
Sure, let’s do an election with 10M+ Ukrainians displaced abroad, an army busy at the frontlines and the risk of russia bombing polling stations when civilians go there to place their vote. Great idea!
No one wants you in NATO.
Here is the funny thing many don’t know about. Russia wanted to be part of NATO but were blocked by US . How else would US sell its arms without the threat of an enemy.
No shit
We (the Europeans) want you in NATO Ukraine, you’re our fellow brothers, and if you join it will weaken the Russian sphere of influence, thus making our democratic and European values stronger.
Smart play, ‘Biden didn’t want us in NATO’.
They’ll be in no time.
Guys guys, listen. Sorry to be a bit out of topic but i have come with an idea that might be a good FU to Putler and spit-roast him into a crisp:
America split with Europe. That’s terrible. it was a good partnership for more than 60 or 80 years? Idk, i stopped counting after 2000’s. Anyways, bye Trump.
Trump’s New America has split with the rest of the world, besides Hungary and Russia: Scary, i was having a psychotic fit here after getting the gist of what happened in the Munich Conference.
Now listen: America is destroying itself from inside-out, so it’s a no-brainer they have no more world capability: they are a nation in death convulsion.
Russian partnership with China has always been a handshake with a dagger on the backhand: They play along but never really trust each other. Until late 2010’s, Russia was the Senior partner in this relation.
After 3 years of this Ukraine war blunder that put the russian economy in war mode, emptied it’s coffers, is lacking all kind of civilian goods, services and personnel, suffered +-1 million casualties and it’s in shambles, Putler thought that with Trumpy’s America he would finally get off the stalemate and overcome Ukraine.
But here’s the kicker: After the Munich Security Security Conference fiasco, Europe seemed like it was alone now, but then, who came to shake hands and offer all kinds of assistance????
CHINA!
So, i know China is not perfect and have some human right issues, but China doesn’t pose any direct risk to Europe. China is the world’s Walmart for everything and anything industrialized. Is starting to get some military tech, not as good as American was, but still, numbers are important in wars, and it’s 1000x more reliable and stable regime than schizophrenic America with it’s political pendulum.
AND, and, China doesn’t really care about Russia, or America, or anybody: China cares about China, and China doesn’t want nuclear wars that would destroy it’s buyer market: it’s bad for business. Also, this “partnership” Russia and China are having right now is nothing more than China gulping up all the oil it can from Russia at peanut prices. They are really being the Pimp, taking advantage of it’s slavic harlot.
The cherry on the cake is: Russia will be ENCIRCLED: by both China and Europe. Putin will be the meat in this spit-roasted three-way: a big BIG FU to all Putler’s ambitions of conquest and total defeat of it’s goals. Surrounded by both strong partners and unable to trade with anyone besides Trump.
What do you guys say?
Here in Finland, we know exactly this situation. Almost hundred years we was a country, who destiny decided another countries. Sweden, Russia/Soviet Union, Germany and ofc United States. When we wanted to join EU, there was a countries who try to betray us… Sweden was one of those. Greece was another. And NATO-path was something same. That time we joined NATO, was the only time in history when that was even possible. Before that, they don’t want us because “old deal” working fine. And now, Trump-time it is impossible ANY county to join NATO anymore. Ukrainians are same situation. The thing was newer “want another countries you or not”. The real thing is timing. Ukraine must wait right time. That CAN last twenty years easily. Finland joined nato, because Russian war. But that newer was Finlands safety concerns. Another countries really doesn’t care less of Us (and Ukraine). That was because same time “weak” Biden was president and want to snap Putin with NATO expansion… That was only reason why Sweden and Finland can joined NATO (And Turkey, Hungary still protest). Ukraine must wait something kind that. Timing is the thing. Not moral or “doing right thing”.
NATO is a sinking ship anyway dude.
That is 100% correct.
NATO was just a carrot to dangle in front of Ukraine to draw it and Russia into a war, then continuously undersupply them and make arrangements so that Russia wouldn’t lose, and eventually throw them under the bus entirely.
My guess is that it was all designed to stop Europe + Russia from emerging as the third-world superpower (alongside the US and China) and remove any chances of Europe turning into a US competitor.
So to make it happen US needed to orchestrate a conflict between Europe and Russia, cut off Europe from cheap Russian energy resources, and make it over-reliant on the US. Which worked out exactly as planned.
Nobody really wants a mostly corrupt nation with poor military infrastructure in their alliance. Shocking….
NATO policy has usually been to not invite nations who have ongoing territorial disputes, not to mention that the US and Europe were also adhering to the agreement made with Russia prior to not expand NATO in the direction of Russian to begin with. Unlike what Russia claimed in its flimsy justification for the war, the West was actually honoring its side of the deal. Plus, for much of the early 2000s, Ukraine had a government friendly to Moscow due to a shared history within the USSR and also, of course, due to Putin’s meddling. Euromaidan affirmed Ukraine’s interests to remain close with Europe however which caused a major crisis in the Kremlin. Ironically enough, Ukrainians weren’t in favor of completely abandoning ties or joining NATO either at the time.
But then, instead of relying on soft power or diplomacy or negotiation to remain close with Ukraine, Putin decided to forcibly annex Crimea while arming and organizing separatists in Donetsk and Luhansk. After this, the historical link between the two nations was irreparably damaged. There was no major political leader at this time, both in the US and Europe, who were in favor of immediately bringing Ukraine into either NATO or the EU due to not only the risk of escalating a broader conflict but also due to other factors such as the endemic corruption rife in Ukraine that caused concerns about it’s political reliability.
I support Ukraine and especially its right to defend itself against Russian aggression, but Zelensky is being unreasonable in trying to somehow use this as a way to indict the West.
Anyone with half a brain was saying this 2 years ago…no one is risking ww3 over ukrine, as unfair as that is…its the reality.
Zelensky admitted sending his men to war knowing NATO membership was never attainable. Telling his country for the last 3 years they would be a NATO member. Lying to them week in, week out!
This has to be the biggest scandal regarding this war.
Link is video of Zelensky admitting he was told by Biden on their FIRST call after start of Russian invasion that ukraine would not join NATO.
Video was from a panel discussion at the recent Munich security conference
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/volodymyrzelensky/video-3374659/Video-didnt-want-Zelensky-says-did-not-want-Ukraine-NATO.html
obviously, why would they want one of the most corrupt nations on earth, which is in a strategically complex and not advantageous position? lets stop pretending nato is a charity theyre not, theres already talks of kicking out countries not paying their dues like spain, which is 100 times more developed, and theyre gonna let these guys in?
The lesson here is arm up, with domestic weapons systems. Rely on others as little as possible.
Just like Germany never wanted Turkey to be in the EU, even before Schröder.
Actually it was the idiotic Europeans before who thought they could make nice with Russia, but regardless, Ukraine was never “at risk” of joining NATO. This is devastating to all those useful kremlin idiots who keep harping about NATO “expansion” causing the Ukraine wars.
Well the US did together with Georgia, with Bush in I believe 07 or 08 if I’m not mistaken… European leaders warned them about the consequenses but obviously the US paid no mind to it and just did what they wanted to do. The result was an invasion in Georgia in 2008.
I hate trump and everything that maga stands for but the current us administration is pushing the same policy on Ukraine as the last but they are just more stupid and evil about it
Anyone should be able to join NATO who wants to join.
Pre-existing conditions…
So I’ve been right this whole time, and getting ostracized for it. The US just used Ukraine as a proxy to try and destabilize Russia, no more and no less…but he knew the whole time, holy hell. I’m in the States, unfortunately…and in the hospital right now, stay safe…try and move away from US dependence, we will probably pull out of NATO so hopefully Ukraine can take are place, hopefully meet up again after this is all over. Everything really is a fucking lie…
As for Ukrainian it sounds frustrating, but fair. Why foreign politicians should give a fuck, if our own didn’t.
Perhaps we must remind ourselves that corrupt Ukrainian politicians who gave up nukes didn’t lobby Ukraine’s accession to the EU and NATO. Their peers exchanged mid-range missiles to pay off the gas debt to Russia 20 years later as well as lent Crimea as a russian marine base.
Ukraine might have been the Eastern European Switzerland with its rich resources and geography as well as its educated population.
Poor Zelenskiy. Who tf is gonna trust is ever again, eh?
It was agreed back in the split of Russia and the block states I believe don’t quote me but there were “agreements” that there would be no NATO expansion into former Soviet states to not escalate conflicts into what we have today. With every new country close to Russia that joined NATO, of course they would get pissy. It would be like if Mexico and Canada joined the Soviet block during the Cold War, or more like the Cuban missle crisis. No one wants there enemy on their doorstep.
No shit bro.
Lots of saber rattling from western Europeans which is not ready to actually go to war over Ukraine.
How about we all resign from NATO and start another treaty group without the US?
A lot of Americans want you in nato. Just not our corporate leaders
Ukraine may not reach NATO, but what is important are the friends we made along the way ~~
Well yeah you don’t want a country that will actually be attacked that will test if the NATO commitment is real
They were quite happy to arm you to the teeth tho eh!?
I wonder why?🤔
Poland was dragging Ukraine by the ears to join the EU or NATO already 20 years ago. When we entered the EU and there was the Orange Revolution in Ukraine, Poland handed Ukraine dozens of binders of ready-made draft laws and amendments to the law, in compliance with EU law. It was enough to translate and implement 1:1 and Europe could look completely different today.