Gli attivisti suonano allarme mentre le nazioni europee si spostano per uscire dal divieto
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2025/apr/27/campaigners-sound-alarm-as-european-nations-move-to-exit-landmine-ban
di _-_babyshark_-_
Gli attivisti suonano allarme mentre le nazioni europee si spostano per uscire dal divieto
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2025/apr/27/campaigners-sound-alarm-as-european-nations-move-to-exit-landmine-ban
di _-_babyshark_-_
34 commenti
The landmine ban, similarly to the cluster munition convention, was a feel-good treaty signed only by countries, which assumed that they would never need to use landmines or such shells anyway.
Now, Europe naturally needs to reverse its stance and bring back these very effective weapons. People standing in the way need to read the room a bit. Those treaties were never going to last a difficult time.
Well anyone against peaceful countries leaving the treaty can focus their efforts on Russia and make them stop waring their way through Europe. No one want mines but better mines than the russian army
> Taslidžan stressed that there was little argument about the threat the five Nato countries were facing. “The security situation is real, it is a problem,” she said. “But choosing the most indiscriminate weapon amongst all to say that you are going to defend your country, that is wrong. Security cannot be built on a weapon that kills indiscriminately, that remains in the ground long after the conflict has ended and that specifically maims civilians.”
Yes, it can be built. You just need stack enough of the mines near the border, so orks can’t cross easily.
If you don’t like the mines, you can also provide said countries with a reliable nuclear deterrent.
Did they also sound alarm when Russia refused to ratify that agreement? Do they criticize Russia at all or just the countries bordering Russia?
I get the feeling these threads about landmines are brigaded. Too many similar comments that are pro landmines to be real.
What’s the idea, landmine the entire border of your country?
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Did they happen to sound alarm over the growing threat from a kleptocratic regime? Are they going to sound the alarm or even help in any way when those forces invade?
I really can’t stand those people who have no understanding of reality because nothing bad will ever enter their homogeneous little safety bubble
I’m uncomfortable with this
What’s the point of signing these things if as soon as a war starts, we abandon it?
If Russia uses them, it seems to be ‘fine, we’ll do it too’. So where do we draw the line? Chemical Weapons ok, if Moscow does it? Clusters? White phosphorus? Is it alright to ignore POW rules if they do?
If we’re better than them, then stand on principles, don’t flake on them as soon as goings get tough. Otherwise, just don’t bother making this a thing in the first place.
Limiting what arms you can and can’t use while your enemy commits every war crime you can think of is just stupid.
I think Ukraine proved that land mines work really well at stopping Russian tanks, so I think they are a necessary evil, but only place them where they will be necessary to kill orcs
Landmine ban is a relict of happier times
In an ideal world it would be nice not to have them, however sadly we don’t live in an ideal world and ours has Putin in it.
From watching the war in Ukraine landmines have become so important in modern warfare and denying yourself the ability to use them while Russia freely employs them on mass is just like shooting yourself in the foot.
Activists… Such useful fools.
Pacifism hasnt really aged well when you’ve seen what Russians did to Ukrainian civilians
That’s the main problem with self imposed bans like this. It’s all well until there is an actual real threat and then they go out the window pretty quick.
These treaties should only apply when both sides have signed and respect them.
Land mines are a problem when they are used irresponsibly and their locations are not marked making proper demining after the war really difficult which exposes civilians to danger. However, you know what – Russia mass uses scatterable mines that can be launched from artillery or even delivered from the air. We get all the negatives anyway while suffering the consequences of not having them. The same could be said about cluster munitions.
Mines are important for conventional warfare because they significantly hamper the movement of enemy infantry. Before joining the Ottawa treaty Finnish Defense Forces conducted a study where they found AP mines makes the maneuvering of infantry at least three times slower. They can also funnel infantry movement in a way that is beneficial for the defenders. When you share 1,340 kilometer border with Russia covered in dense forests that can easily be the difference between life and death. Unfortunately politics won over common sense at the time.
Not only that but mines are a passive system that do not require the defenders to expose themselves to danger. For example I have seen several first hand accounts where Russians, for example, have had to cancel their attack on Ukrainian positions because they could not navigate minefields in low light conditions without suffering severe casualties. Especially without night vision advancing through heavily mined area at night is incredibly stupid and likely won’t end well.
E: This is coming from a person whose grand-grandfather lost his leg to Russian landmine.
“Campaigners sound alarm” – aka Russian paid campaigners are trying to persuade Europeans that Russia is not an aggressor and landmines are not necessary
“Campaigners sound alarm” probably paid by Russia. It’s Russia’s fault. Why adhere to these rules if Russia doesn’t respect them either?
Campaigners should campaign about something else.
Sucks but you need land mines around Russia Belarus and Transnistria all have attacked a neighbor
And how about the point of view of innocent mangled or killed by landmines, years or decades after the end of the conflicts? Or the families?
Whoever comes to say: “They have maps!“ doesn’t have a clue how things are done, maps are inacurate on purpose, the risk of falling in enemies hands is too high. Usually only the unit that deployed them knows the location, if they die… the info dies too.
Why was a ban? Let me guess; dumb people decided it, these redditors are more intelligent and know better, thanks to their tremendous experience in war thru social media, right? RiGhT?
It’s like the hard on for nuclear energy, weapons and so in social media: all experts on that too! Amazing how social media users are experts in anything, a-ma-zing!
But even more funny is looking at Europe sub and making fun of Americans for how they elected Trump, their opinions, their nacionalism and so, … Have many of you looked at yourself? Pees from the same pod, pees from the same f_ing pod! The only difference is that Americans already elected a guy like them, that thinks he’s an expert in everything and anything, while Europe hasn’t… yet!
Oh, and I forgot: European’s are late to the racism/ islamophobic party, that was during Trump’s first term, now the party has passed to latinos, try to catch up on that too! /s
Might be a dumb question, but the problem with mines are the indiscriminate targeting ? But if you have detailed maps about the minefields and make the area inaccessible, there wouldn’t be much of a problem no?
What an idiotic thing to say. You can easily mine hostile areas with artillery, drones and traditional means, and Russia or anyone else who you need to worry about will do that in numbers and wont be keeping accurate statistics of them. Your own country however can keep very good records, and make it far less likely thay Russia will invade in first place.
Not having land mines yourself does not solve the safety issue of land mines, it only makes overall situation worse.
Harp these opinions when the orcs are breaking your down down.
No one likes this reality (I don’t count Russhits or Maggats as thinking individuals) but here we are.
Times of peace are decided by war. Landmines are terrible but will always be used when peace isn’t on the cards. What a shame in today’s world. We are forgetting our past to our detriment
They should campaign to Russia.
well
no option
sorry
These unfortunate weapons will help prevent Russia from invading. It will make the cost simply too high.
Absolutely pea-brained people brigading this thread. Landmines kill way more of your own civilians in the long run than they kill your enemies. Read up on [mines in Bosnia](https://balkaninsight.com/2019/09/02/wartime-landmines-still-taking-lives-in-bosnia/) and ask yourself if you want the same future for the Baltic states and Finland. “We need landmines to stop the Russians” is such a non-argument, why not bring back mustard gas or anthrax while we’re at it.
Extremely biased article that doesn’t address the threat from Russia and these campaigners get a free ride in the article.
It takes two to tango. Blame Russia.
I don’t believe these campaigners have any right to criticize democratic nations for seeking to defend themselves against despots who have no regard for disarmament agreements. In practice, these pacifists end up indirectly empowering aggressor states like Russia and China by weakening peaceful democracies.
To be clear, I wish we lived in a world where landmines weren’t necessary. But the reality is that regimes like Russia, North Korea, Iran, and China etc. have no interest in moral principles. As long as they continue to ignore them, I see no alternative.
Similarly, the same issues plague nuclear nonproliferation. Authoritarian regimes such as Iran and North Korea manage to acquire nuclear weapons, while peaceful democracies like post-apartheid South Africa and Ukraine are the ones giving them up. This imbalance only strengthens despots and makes it easier for them to achieve their goals, which is why I remain skeptical of the NPT in its current form.
How about sounding an alarm about fucking fascist russia?
Countries not under direct threat angry at countries that are