Coinvolgere Putin senza ingenuità, sostenendo Kiev: la dottrina di Macron per l’Europa

INTERVIEW — In Washington, the President of the Republic spoke at length to Paris Match. With Darius Rochebin, he discusses talks with Trump, Europe’s place, the rumors targeting his wife, and the dissolution.

Paris Match: Mr. President, on Monday you left Brégançon for Washington to convince President Trump to take a tougher line toward Vladimir Putin. Did you manage to change his mind?

Emmanuel Macron: Yes. I think that since he took office in January, we have managed to change President Trump. Remember when he thought he could settle the conflict in twenty-four hours. Remember the scene of humiliation of President Zelensky in the Oval Office. We stood up, united as Europeans, and he took that on board. He also brings a fundamental asset against Russia: his unpredictability.

In that sense, could he be feared more than Joe Biden was?

In any case, he is much more unpredictable, and Putin is well aware of it. As a seasoned former KGB officer and shrewd psychologist, he tries to flatter him with all sorts of compliments. But Donald Trump has understood that Russia is not as simple as he thought. The big change in recent days is that he has acknowledged that Ukraine’s security must be guaranteed.

Has France boxed itself into a posture toward Russia—very moral but unrealistic? Putin is back in the game, after being seen as a pariah. Chirac, or before him de Gaulle, pursued more nuanced policies toward Russia. Chirac was even close to Putin.

That was a different Putin.

He had already crushed Chechnya in blood…

But he had not yet shifted to a policy of systematic destabilization toward Europe. Angela Merkel told me that as well. She saw the moment when he started lying to us constantly, around 2007–2008. As for going back to de Gaulle, you have to reread Hélène Carrère d’Encausse’s excellent books. He wanted to counterbalance the United States but was always perfectly clear in opposing Russian communist regimes. None of that prevents an infinite respect for Russian culture.

“Diplomacy is not morality”

A forthcoming summit could bring together Presidents Trump, Zelensky, and Putin. You argue that Europeans must be there. Could you shake Putin’s hand after what has happened—after the war crimes?

Yes, because I am pragmatic. Diplomacy is not morality. Therefore, you have to talk to people even when you don’t share their values. I will be able to shake his hand and try to get the best possible agreements, but we must also give ourselves the means to command respect.

For his part, Trump is hammering Europe with tariffs and siphoning off its capital. Does he deliberately want to break up the European Union?

Above all, he wants to enrich the United States, and you can’t fault him for that. It’s true that he dislikes Europe as an entity, but he respects countries like France.

Why such hostility toward Europe?

Ideology.

He sometimes ribs you harshly, but he doesn’t permit himself with you what he does with others—like with British Prime Minister Starmer, for example.

We’ve known each other for a long time. I speak frankly to him. We’ve had moments where the tone rose between us, but unlike others, I never mock him. I am never overly familiar. I know he pursues clear, ideological goals, and I never underestimate him.

Did the fact that you had a “real job” before politics matter in his eyes?

No doubt—the fact that I worked in finance.

There are moments of striking complicity between your two couples that contrast with the political tensions.

I took him to see Les Invalides. Brigitte, Melania, he and I saw the Emperor’s tomb. You must never caricature Trump. He knows how to appreciate France’s history. Brigitte took Melania to see the Holy Crown. She plays a real role with him; her voice carries weight, particularly on humanitarian issues.

American nationalist circles are hostile to you. You’ve decided to file a lawsuit against Candace Owens, the influencer spreading the rumor that your wife is a man. That breaks with a custom among heads of state—to ignore this kind of attack.

Yes, there was a tradition of saying: let it slide. That’s what we did at first. Initially, it was in France. We were advised not to sue. It risked provoking a “Streisand effect” that draws even more attention to these lies. But it grew to such proportions in the United States that we had to respond. This is about upholding the truth. We’re talking about the civil status of the First Lady of France—about a wife, a mother, a grandmother. Restoring the truth cannot be called an infringement of free speech. Those who talk to you about that supposed free speech are the same who ban journalists from the Oval Office. I do not accept that.

So you will see this through to a conviction?

Of course! This is about defending my honor! Because it’s nonsense. This is someone who knew full well she held false information and did it with the intent to harm, in service of an ideology, with established connections to far-right leaders.

“Why cohabitation? No. François Bayrou is my friend.”

You are omnipresent on the international stage, but your situation is more complicated domestically, with this somewhat strange half-cohabitation. A centrist Prime Minister, LR ministers who are hostile to you…

Why cohabitation? No. François Bayrou is my friend. There is a broader coalition, that’s all.

There are also a few members of Renaissance who are less loyal to you, twenty months from the end of the five-year term…

That’s what I call “the animal life.” [He laughs.]

Do you ever feel tempted by a new dissolution, to seek clarity—return to the fundamentals of the Fifth Republic and a true majority?

No. I dissolved the Assembly, and I explained why. I spent eight consecutive years in office without alternation, without losing a parliamentary majority. That hadn’t happened since General de Gaulle—and I’m not comparing myself to him. It was another era. There was the ORTF. Programs were even submitted to the authorities! Now, in 2025, after the dissolution, we have a Parliament that reflects the country’s fractures. It’s up to political leaders to learn to work together. Look at what’s happening in Germany. That’s how Chancellor Merz’s coalition is organized.

So you hope this Bayrou government will last until the end of your term?

Is this guys wife not a pedophile ?
From the info I read , she was his middle school teacher and like 20 -30 years older than him ? Seems like he was groomed

“Engaging Putin without naivety” that is Europe to a teeth. [“France’s misreading of President Putin was all the more embarrassing because President Emmanuel Macron had spoken to him regularly in the days leading up to the invasion on 24 February.”](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60938538) This was as the US and UK were warning of the invasion.