It seems like some writers and editors also did not fully benefit from schooling in the English language.
sinceitoldyouitsover on
Overwhelmingly, the parents who aren’t supportive of the school’s behaviour policy are the white working class ones. This leads to discontent on the part of the student and the parents as the school pushes back and asserts its rights to enforce those policies, leading to a vicious cycle of resentment and disengagement. When you’ve got parents telling their kids that they don’t need to listen to teachers or that the teachers are out to get them, that leads to real problems down the line.
WGSMA on
Because working class whites overwhelmingly have parents that don’t value education
Source – A Working Class White Who Experienced It
Electricbell20 on
At some point you have to throw away the optics of racism. This tip toeing around, helping white working class students more,, needs to stop and the long term plan put in place.
cosmic_monsters_inc on
Are we ever going to stop framing everything around skin colour?
lolgreece on
“white working class” is an outcome variable, not a demographic. If you
1. select for kids whose parents work lower earning jobs and
2. (by filtering for ethnicity) also filter out many people whose parents work lower earning jobs because they’re first generation immigrants
Is it any real surprise that you are going to be left with kids that are statistically less likely to do well at school and have parents who don’t value education as much? Identity politics is still stupid when it’s done by or on behalf of white people, or by CBEs and MBEs.
Maybe education professionals don’t like to hear this but:
a) In any demographic that does well at school, parents do more of the early education of kids than schools do.
b) people who didn’t have attentive parents helping them learn as kids are unlikely to do the same for their kids without a lot of prompting
c) a lot of the motivation to do well comes from comparing oneself with peers and seeking praise from parents.
d) teachers are too often hopelessly young folks with very little gravitas who simply can’t speak to parents with authority.
hadawayandshite on
Once again as with when GCSEs came out etc is this doing the handwave ‘working class=free school meals’….when really it means ‘kids in poverty’
araed on
This is why I’m a major fan of bringing back the traditional grammar school approach.
An academic environment for the academic kids. A trade/practical environment for the practical kids. A plasterer is of equal value to society, but you create them in very different environments. A bricklayer doesn’t need to know computer programming, but similarly, a computer programmer doesn’t need to know how to mix mortar.
Sure, these skills are helpful, but the “academia first” approach disenfranchises so many people it’s unreal. My mum has a degree; my dad doesn’t. My dad ran a successful business for years, while my mum works as a nurse. My mum has cared for hundreds of kids, and my dad employed people so they could feed those kids.
Somewhere along the line, we decided everyone should go to university; rather than everyone should have the opportunity to go to university. Those two are *very* different things.
Psittacula2 on
One area glossed over is the fit of a standard school system:
1. EXCESSIVE academia and information delivery in a classroom passive “sit, listen, write, repeat“ format.
2. Focus on core cognitive areas reduce academia information total.
3. Replace with wider and more diverse activities in schools.
Half of the function of a school is to corral the kids during the day for working parents let’s be honest. And guess what a lot of kid cotton on to that and realise school is a waste of time and oppressive.
One of the reasons for the standard approach is logistics and budget and another is standard system where everyone goes the same thing makes everyone believe that is the only choice. As soon as kids do learn there is another way you can bet they’d go for it and schools cannot Provison anything else due to the above especially crowd control which is easiest by getting kids to sit down in rows passively most of the day.
The other side is the more kids come from low quality parenting backgrounds or low social capital the more dysfunctional they are also and the worse the fit to standardized schooling in classroom albeit classrooms become the ONLY way to control such kids who are even more badly behaved and unruly when freed of such shackles! Which is a paradox to be sure…
Fundamentally, I would argue kids need to be out in society sooner, shadowing actual work done by adults and getting an idea of what is in store in life as opposed to being cocooned in schools until legal liability for them diminishes at 16… thus wasting so much of everyone’s time inside a classroom.
Put it this way. These working class kids, if they do not want to come into school and when they do they piss about because it is a joke to them, why are they not desperate to get into school and make use of the resources in school and willing to behave to achieve that? Answer that and you can get through to them, ignore it and it more song and dance routine pretending to deal with the problem.
FlockBoySlim on
>Only 52 per cent of white working-class parents thought their child’s teachers “respected them by years 10 and 11”.
I would love to know the percentage of teachers who feel white working class parents respect them by years 10 and 11…
ICanDanceIfIWantToo on
Hamid Patel said they “seem” to be.
I wouldn’t trust anyone who is CEO of a trust. They are all about the cash and how savings can be made often at the expense of the schools and get paid ridiculous amounts.
I’m also not sure I want someone the “The Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) welcomes the appointment of Sir Mufti Hamid Patel CBE as interim chair of Ofsted” investigating white pupils much I wouldn’t’ a white guy investigating Muslim pupils.
leahcar83 on
I briefly worked in a secondary school with children who required extra support needs and some of it I found really disheartening. The school had set up a small centre away from the school to cater for pupils with behavioural needs. These pupils did tend to be white working class boys who struggled with things like dyslexia and ADHD. They’d be brought over to the main school a few times a week for one to one support which generally was really productive, but they hated having to be at the main school because their different uniforms made them a target for bullying.
The sense I got was that they felt no one actually had time for them, they’d been shoved off to an off-site prefab and felt more like they were being punished than supported. I definitely got the sense that they were made to feel like they were a burden on the learning of other children. Working with them one-to-one was great because they were interesting and funny and more than capable. I found it was easy enough to engage them just through doing little things like letting them call me by my first name, speaking to them in the same way I’d speak to my adult colleagues, and being more flexible with my sessions so they could have input into how we’d learn things.
Admittedly I benefited from having the time to work one-to-one and unlike qualified teachers I wasn’t also teaching classes, marking work, or forced to stick to a structured curriculum. I feel like the message the boys consistently get is that they’re at fault for dragging down the school’s results or even results nationally. I don’t think much will change until there’s an approach that treats them with respect and doesn’t patronise them.
NotMyFirstChoice675 on
As usual…it’s the ignorant parents poisoning their young kids
suihpares on
Was never like that 15-20 years ago… I wonder what could have possibly changed to bring the standard down? Couldn’t be people who don’t bother to learn English? Couldn’t be people who don’t bother to assimilate into culture and instead impose dark age laws? Couldn’t possibly be people who are not born here and instead take take take and act like victims when they’ve been saved from some third world horror country? Couldn’t possibly be racism against indigenous, ancient European people’s ?
Inside-Judgment6233 on
The question is, what are you seeking to transform them into? If it is to help them rise in society, then this is a tragedy. If it is to make them pale copies of the HR ideal, then the question becomes a little bit more nuanced
AxQB on
It’s very much about what the teachers and educators think school is meant for. I’ve heard more than a few teachers say that pupils need to study otherwise they would end up in “dead-end jobs”, which I suppose are the jobs of the parents of many working class pupils. Teachers show disdain for the kind of jobs the parents of these kids do, even if those so-called dead-end jobs are often essential jobs that a country needs to function, and people can find fulfillment in those jobs. Teachers think their job is to turn pupils into lawyers, artists, managers, academics, etc. (a relatively small proportion of the population) and neglect those who don’t want to, or simply can’t do these jobs. I’m not surprise that these working class pupils are not receptive to teachers who are contemptuous of the work their parents do, and who try to push them into a direction they don’t want to go.
honkballs on
Normally I wouldn’t feel the need to comment about this, but since the article is specifically about white schoolchildren being “discontent” it stood out.
When I opened the article the first thing I saw was an image of Hamid Patel, the head of the education trust (a brown man). Then the large banners for Iris Education on either side showing a black woman, and the main ad at the top for Cambridge OCR also featured what appears to be a black woman. Every images used for the suggested articles at the bottom of the page features only black or brown people. This is a website for “UK education professionals”
The only image that included a white person was one of a woman with her face hidden, overlaid with the word “STOP” (an image with a negative connotation, compared to the big smiling faces of the other images)
Just the other month we saw the story of the white girl being sent home for wearing a Union Jack dress (an omage to Geri Halliwell girl power) on culture day, and just last week another school having to issue an apology after saying putting up a British flag is racist, these sort of stories feel common now.
If this kind of representation runs throughout the education system, it’s possible that whatever they are trying in schools doesn’t resonate that well with white pupils anymore, and white students are beginning to feel that it’s not really for them, or that the values being promoted don’t include them.
17 commenti
>A [survey conducted by the review](https://staracademies.org/news-story/unique-new-white-working-class-education-survey-results-published/) revealed 25 per cent of white working-class boys don’t need read outside school and that white working-class youngsters are less likely to enjoy classes.
It seems like some writers and editors also did not fully benefit from schooling in the English language.
Overwhelmingly, the parents who aren’t supportive of the school’s behaviour policy are the white working class ones. This leads to discontent on the part of the student and the parents as the school pushes back and asserts its rights to enforce those policies, leading to a vicious cycle of resentment and disengagement. When you’ve got parents telling their kids that they don’t need to listen to teachers or that the teachers are out to get them, that leads to real problems down the line.
Because working class whites overwhelmingly have parents that don’t value education
Source – A Working Class White Who Experienced It
At some point you have to throw away the optics of racism. This tip toeing around, helping white working class students more,, needs to stop and the long term plan put in place.
Are we ever going to stop framing everything around skin colour?
“white working class” is an outcome variable, not a demographic. If you
1. select for kids whose parents work lower earning jobs and
2. (by filtering for ethnicity) also filter out many people whose parents work lower earning jobs because they’re first generation immigrants
Is it any real surprise that you are going to be left with kids that are statistically less likely to do well at school and have parents who don’t value education as much? Identity politics is still stupid when it’s done by or on behalf of white people, or by CBEs and MBEs.
Maybe education professionals don’t like to hear this but:
a) In any demographic that does well at school, parents do more of the early education of kids than schools do.
b) people who didn’t have attentive parents helping them learn as kids are unlikely to do the same for their kids without a lot of prompting
c) a lot of the motivation to do well comes from comparing oneself with peers and seeking praise from parents.
d) teachers are too often hopelessly young folks with very little gravitas who simply can’t speak to parents with authority.
Once again as with when GCSEs came out etc is this doing the handwave ‘working class=free school meals’….when really it means ‘kids in poverty’
This is why I’m a major fan of bringing back the traditional grammar school approach.
An academic environment for the academic kids. A trade/practical environment for the practical kids. A plasterer is of equal value to society, but you create them in very different environments. A bricklayer doesn’t need to know computer programming, but similarly, a computer programmer doesn’t need to know how to mix mortar.
Sure, these skills are helpful, but the “academia first” approach disenfranchises so many people it’s unreal. My mum has a degree; my dad doesn’t. My dad ran a successful business for years, while my mum works as a nurse. My mum has cared for hundreds of kids, and my dad employed people so they could feed those kids.
Somewhere along the line, we decided everyone should go to university; rather than everyone should have the opportunity to go to university. Those two are *very* different things.
One area glossed over is the fit of a standard school system:
1. EXCESSIVE academia and information delivery in a classroom passive “sit, listen, write, repeat“ format.
2. Focus on core cognitive areas reduce academia information total.
3. Replace with wider and more diverse activities in schools.
Half of the function of a school is to corral the kids during the day for working parents let’s be honest. And guess what a lot of kid cotton on to that and realise school is a waste of time and oppressive.
One of the reasons for the standard approach is logistics and budget and another is standard system where everyone goes the same thing makes everyone believe that is the only choice. As soon as kids do learn there is another way you can bet they’d go for it and schools cannot Provison anything else due to the above especially crowd control which is easiest by getting kids to sit down in rows passively most of the day.
The other side is the more kids come from low quality parenting backgrounds or low social capital the more dysfunctional they are also and the worse the fit to standardized schooling in classroom albeit classrooms become the ONLY way to control such kids who are even more badly behaved and unruly when freed of such shackles! Which is a paradox to be sure…
Fundamentally, I would argue kids need to be out in society sooner, shadowing actual work done by adults and getting an idea of what is in store in life as opposed to being cocooned in schools until legal liability for them diminishes at 16… thus wasting so much of everyone’s time inside a classroom.
Put it this way. These working class kids, if they do not want to come into school and when they do they piss about because it is a joke to them, why are they not desperate to get into school and make use of the resources in school and willing to behave to achieve that? Answer that and you can get through to them, ignore it and it more song and dance routine pretending to deal with the problem.
>Only 52 per cent of white working-class parents thought their child’s teachers “respected them by years 10 and 11”.
I would love to know the percentage of teachers who feel white working class parents respect them by years 10 and 11…
Hamid Patel said they “seem” to be.
I wouldn’t trust anyone who is CEO of a trust. They are all about the cash and how savings can be made often at the expense of the schools and get paid ridiculous amounts.
I’m also not sure I want someone the “The Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) welcomes the appointment of Sir Mufti Hamid Patel CBE as interim chair of Ofsted” investigating white pupils much I wouldn’t’ a white guy investigating Muslim pupils.
I briefly worked in a secondary school with children who required extra support needs and some of it I found really disheartening. The school had set up a small centre away from the school to cater for pupils with behavioural needs. These pupils did tend to be white working class boys who struggled with things like dyslexia and ADHD. They’d be brought over to the main school a few times a week for one to one support which generally was really productive, but they hated having to be at the main school because their different uniforms made them a target for bullying.
The sense I got was that they felt no one actually had time for them, they’d been shoved off to an off-site prefab and felt more like they were being punished than supported. I definitely got the sense that they were made to feel like they were a burden on the learning of other children. Working with them one-to-one was great because they were interesting and funny and more than capable. I found it was easy enough to engage them just through doing little things like letting them call me by my first name, speaking to them in the same way I’d speak to my adult colleagues, and being more flexible with my sessions so they could have input into how we’d learn things.
Admittedly I benefited from having the time to work one-to-one and unlike qualified teachers I wasn’t also teaching classes, marking work, or forced to stick to a structured curriculum. I feel like the message the boys consistently get is that they’re at fault for dragging down the school’s results or even results nationally. I don’t think much will change until there’s an approach that treats them with respect and doesn’t patronise them.
As usual…it’s the ignorant parents poisoning their young kids
Was never like that 15-20 years ago… I wonder what could have possibly changed to bring the standard down? Couldn’t be people who don’t bother to learn English? Couldn’t be people who don’t bother to assimilate into culture and instead impose dark age laws? Couldn’t possibly be people who are not born here and instead take take take and act like victims when they’ve been saved from some third world horror country? Couldn’t possibly be racism against indigenous, ancient European people’s ?
The question is, what are you seeking to transform them into? If it is to help them rise in society, then this is a tragedy. If it is to make them pale copies of the HR ideal, then the question becomes a little bit more nuanced
It’s very much about what the teachers and educators think school is meant for. I’ve heard more than a few teachers say that pupils need to study otherwise they would end up in “dead-end jobs”, which I suppose are the jobs of the parents of many working class pupils. Teachers show disdain for the kind of jobs the parents of these kids do, even if those so-called dead-end jobs are often essential jobs that a country needs to function, and people can find fulfillment in those jobs. Teachers think their job is to turn pupils into lawyers, artists, managers, academics, etc. (a relatively small proportion of the population) and neglect those who don’t want to, or simply can’t do these jobs. I’m not surprise that these working class pupils are not receptive to teachers who are contemptuous of the work their parents do, and who try to push them into a direction they don’t want to go.
Normally I wouldn’t feel the need to comment about this, but since the article is specifically about white schoolchildren being “discontent” it stood out.
When I opened the article the first thing I saw was an image of Hamid Patel, the head of the education trust (a brown man). Then the large banners for Iris Education on either side showing a black woman, and the main ad at the top for Cambridge OCR also featured what appears to be a black woman. Every images used for the suggested articles at the bottom of the page features only black or brown people. This is a website for “UK education professionals”
The only image that included a white person was one of a woman with her face hidden, overlaid with the word “STOP” (an image with a negative connotation, compared to the big smiling faces of the other images)
Just the other month we saw the story of the white girl being sent home for wearing a Union Jack dress (an omage to Geri Halliwell girl power) on culture day, and just last week another school having to issue an apology after saying putting up a British flag is racist, these sort of stories feel common now.
If this kind of representation runs throughout the education system, it’s possible that whatever they are trying in schools doesn’t resonate that well with white pupils anymore, and white students are beginning to feel that it’s not really for them, or that the values being promoted don’t include them.