I feel like elites blame internet and electronics so they can gain more power to control them but real cause of the fall is failed neoliberal system. If economy was working for everyone people wouldn’t lose trust in the system.
blogabegonija on
“It’s simply not possible to walk back from social media or do anything beyond banning phones in schools,” Francis Fukuyama, a political scientist at Stanford, wrote in an email.
I, mean, really??? He just gave up on education and common sense. Only idiot would be believe this bs.
-_Dean_Winchester on
We need algorithm restrictions and regulations.. places like YouTube are absolute hellholes these days, watch one video for a second before clicking away and now your whole feed is that video category for months.. clicked one video of some incel rightoid by accident? Well tough luck bucko that’s your whole feed now.
Facebook is less rabbithole inducing than YouTube these days ffs
asfsdgwe35r3asfdas23 on
The fall of western democracies is caused by the housing crisis, cost of living crisis and failure of the mass migration model. And all of this was caused in the first time by an inverted pyramid population in which the old hold too much power and are willing to sacrifice the young to get their yearly pension wage increase.
Trying to blame the smartphones and try to impose North Korea style censorship in the EU is not going to make things better.
Western democracies are failing to the young, and it is understandable that they are loosing trust in it. Nobody likes a system that makes them miserable.
Adept_of_Yoga on
Someone is obviously confusing correlation and causation there.
While we all know what happened during the past decade to fundamentally destabilize peoples‘ trust in their nations‘ democratic institutions to guarantee the wellbeing and security of their respective citizen primarily.
SimonGray on
Paywall
snowsuit101 on
It’s not a technology problem but a human problem. There was no computer, electronic, even mechanical technology for most of human history yet you can barely point to any culture at any time that had democracy, and even then it was only democracy by name, it had nothing to do with what we understand under democracy today. People have been manipulated and oppressed en masse as far as we can look back, the vehicle of that manipulation really doesn’t matter. The progression towards a society built around information and information technology was the sole reason democracy, freedom and equality even became viable options, but human nature prevails again, and trying to suppress that so people don’t sabotage each other flies straight into the face of the modern idea of freedom.
hamstar_potato on
Yes, because social media is forcing our politicians to be corrupt and refuse court orders for transparency to run away from press conferences, to cut funds for already underfunded education and make the poor poorer meanwhile politicians can’t cut away their special pensions. Social media isn’t the main thing at fault. Can we start blaming the main roots of “the fall of democracy”? And declaring that democracy should be enforced doesn’t sound democratic at all. Also, what’s democratic about censoring “legal yet harmful” content and pushing for Chinese-style surveillance laws (chat control and age verifications to make us lose our privacy and anonymity the same ways authoritarian regimes did).
Timauris on
Paywall. Could somebody post the whole text?
ReadToW on
[](https://www.nytimes.com/by/thomas-b-edsall)By Thomas B. Edsall
Mr. Edsall contributes a weekly column from Washington, D.C., on politics, demographics and inequality.
At a recent conference in Spain on polarization, Avila Kilmurray, a key player in the Northern Ireland peace process, reminded the gathering that the [Good Friday Agreement](https://www.ireland.ie/en/dfa/role-policies/northern-ireland/about-the-good-friday-agreement/) received more than 71 percent support in a 1998 referendum. But, she said, “if the vote were held today, with the presence of social media, I don’t think it would pass.”
Kilmurray’s comment goes to the heart of the political, cultural and educational problems prompted not just by social media but also by the growing presence of all kinds of new technologies in our lives, especially artificial intelligence.
Is it even possible to weigh the costs of social media against its benefits?
Was the election of Donald Trump to the presidency in 2016 and 2024 one of the costs of social media? Is the rise in right-wing populism in the United States and Europe — accompanied by democratic backsliding in country after country — another cost?
Are new technologies, especially artificial intelligence, weakening the ability of students to think and reason at length and in depth? Do they help explain declining reading scores?
The reality is that an accurate accounting of the first question — can the costs of social media be weighed against the benefits? — is an impossible task and may have little relevance, since there is no going back from a world with A.I., TikTok, Facebook, the internet, smartphones and Instagram, not to mention the technologies we don’t yet know.
“It’s simply not possible to walk back from social media or do anything beyond banning phones in schools,” Francis Fukuyama, a political scientist at Stanford, wrote in an email. “This whole world is changing very dramatically with the integration of A.I. into the way the platforms operate and how individuals interact with them.”
What can be done, however, is to attempt to assess the costs with an eye to minimizing harm.
kkapulic on
The spread of ignorance and the decline of education is driving this, not smartphones or social media. Disinformation and manipulation of ignorant, primarily through organized religion have been present since the very beginning of civilization. Only trough education and knowledge can be this prevented not by banning the means of communication.
B9F2FF on
Generally, micromanaging is never an answer.
However most of public servents and politicians would not know that as they never worked in environment where being competitive is important and hence would realize micromanaging leads to no good.
Banning people from posting will NOT ban people from THINKING. And if you ban and control people posting to level where people feel they are consistantly being controlled and watched, you will get AfDs and actually majority will sway to it unlike edge case people in single digit.
12 commenti
I feel like elites blame internet and electronics so they can gain more power to control them but real cause of the fall is failed neoliberal system. If economy was working for everyone people wouldn’t lose trust in the system.
“It’s simply not possible to walk back from social media or do anything beyond banning phones in schools,” Francis Fukuyama, a political scientist at Stanford, wrote in an email.
I, mean, really??? He just gave up on education and common sense. Only idiot would be believe this bs.
We need algorithm restrictions and regulations.. places like YouTube are absolute hellholes these days, watch one video for a second before clicking away and now your whole feed is that video category for months.. clicked one video of some incel rightoid by accident? Well tough luck bucko that’s your whole feed now.
Facebook is less rabbithole inducing than YouTube these days ffs
The fall of western democracies is caused by the housing crisis, cost of living crisis and failure of the mass migration model. And all of this was caused in the first time by an inverted pyramid population in which the old hold too much power and are willing to sacrifice the young to get their yearly pension wage increase.
Trying to blame the smartphones and try to impose North Korea style censorship in the EU is not going to make things better.
Western democracies are failing to the young, and it is understandable that they are loosing trust in it. Nobody likes a system that makes them miserable.
Someone is obviously confusing correlation and causation there.
While we all know what happened during the past decade to fundamentally destabilize peoples‘ trust in their nations‘ democratic institutions to guarantee the wellbeing and security of their respective citizen primarily.
Paywall
It’s not a technology problem but a human problem. There was no computer, electronic, even mechanical technology for most of human history yet you can barely point to any culture at any time that had democracy, and even then it was only democracy by name, it had nothing to do with what we understand under democracy today. People have been manipulated and oppressed en masse as far as we can look back, the vehicle of that manipulation really doesn’t matter. The progression towards a society built around information and information technology was the sole reason democracy, freedom and equality even became viable options, but human nature prevails again, and trying to suppress that so people don’t sabotage each other flies straight into the face of the modern idea of freedom.
Yes, because social media is forcing our politicians to be corrupt and refuse court orders for transparency to run away from press conferences, to cut funds for already underfunded education and make the poor poorer meanwhile politicians can’t cut away their special pensions. Social media isn’t the main thing at fault. Can we start blaming the main roots of “the fall of democracy”? And declaring that democracy should be enforced doesn’t sound democratic at all. Also, what’s democratic about censoring “legal yet harmful” content and pushing for Chinese-style surveillance laws (chat control and age verifications to make us lose our privacy and anonymity the same ways authoritarian regimes did).
Paywall. Could somebody post the whole text?
[](https://www.nytimes.com/by/thomas-b-edsall)By Thomas B. Edsall
Mr. Edsall contributes a weekly column from Washington, D.C., on politics, demographics and inequality.
At a recent conference in Spain on polarization, Avila Kilmurray, a key player in the Northern Ireland peace process, reminded the gathering that the [Good Friday Agreement](https://www.ireland.ie/en/dfa/role-policies/northern-ireland/about-the-good-friday-agreement/) received more than 71 percent support in a 1998 referendum. But, she said, “if the vote were held today, with the presence of social media, I don’t think it would pass.”
Kilmurray’s comment goes to the heart of the political, cultural and educational problems prompted not just by social media but also by the growing presence of all kinds of new technologies in our lives, especially artificial intelligence.
Is it even possible to weigh the costs of social media against its benefits?
Was the election of Donald Trump to the presidency in 2016 and 2024 one of the costs of social media? Is the rise in right-wing populism in the United States and Europe — accompanied by democratic backsliding in country after country — another cost?
On another front of equal importance, has a generation of young men and women, especially [young liberal women](https://magazine.columbia.edu/article/why-depression-rates-are-higher-among-liberals), suffered heightened levels of depression and anxiety because of social media?
Are new technologies, especially artificial intelligence, weakening the ability of students to think and reason at length and in depth? Do they help explain declining reading scores?
The reality is that an accurate accounting of the first question — can the costs of social media be weighed against the benefits? — is an impossible task and may have little relevance, since there is no going back from a world with A.I., TikTok, Facebook, the internet, smartphones and Instagram, not to mention the technologies we don’t yet know.
“It’s simply not possible to walk back from social media or do anything beyond banning phones in schools,” Francis Fukuyama, a political scientist at Stanford, wrote in an email. “This whole world is changing very dramatically with the integration of A.I. into the way the platforms operate and how individuals interact with them.”
What can be done, however, is to attempt to assess the costs with an eye to minimizing harm.
The spread of ignorance and the decline of education is driving this, not smartphones or social media. Disinformation and manipulation of ignorant, primarily through organized religion have been present since the very beginning of civilization. Only trough education and knowledge can be this prevented not by banning the means of communication.
Generally, micromanaging is never an answer.
However most of public servents and politicians would not know that as they never worked in environment where being competitive is important and hence would realize micromanaging leads to no good.
Banning people from posting will NOT ban people from THINKING. And if you ban and control people posting to level where people feel they are consistantly being controlled and watched, you will get AfDs and actually majority will sway to it unlike edge case people in single digit.