Why build a new city instead of expanding the cities (and towns) that already exist?
Edit: True decentralisation in Ireland would really help also.
shorelined on
Filling the brownfield and derelict sites of our existing cities would be a good start and support existing infrastructure. Look at a map of Limerick and look at the amount of half-empty estates that ring the city. If you filled in all of the wasteland around in the Rhebogue, the dock road, Castletroy, Ballysimon and Roxboro, you could add thousands of apartments easily, and that’s before you add in the city centre vacancies around the train station, Cleeves, the island and the medieval quarter.
EnvironmentalHat8771 on
First. Trasnport. More trains, more buses, more Luas
MoBhollix on
I thought the startling thing in this article was the bland assumption that we’d have 2 million new residents in 25 years.
If that happens a new city could be part of the solution, but only part, not sorting out the problems in our existing urban areas wouldn’t be an option.
The fact remains, 2 million new residents will more likely leave us with shanty towns stretching to Naas than any type of coordinated solution.
DifficultMobile4095 on
As others said, Ireland already has five official cities, should we not focus on them? Especially as one of the main drivers in Irish cities is their historic nature. A new city won’t have that. Wasn’t Shannon a purpose built town?
Cork Docklands has potential to be one of the most promising developments nationally since Dublin Docklands/IFSC (which, in some opinions, has failed in a number of ways). The Docklands already has three parks of varying sizes, good access to the city centre on foot or bike, a stadium, Kent Train Station, a planned tram, and plenty of undeveloped land ripe for development. The government should be investing in a new road linking the N25 or M28 to Marino Point over the harbour so that the Docklands can be fully voided of industry. The fact this road isn’t happening should be a national scandal. Instead, we have RTE calling for a whole new city to be built..
qwerty_1965 on
Tricky one
Do we want expansion of existing cities with their invariably ad hoc incoherence and low density inefficiency or go for a big bang high density new build in a geographically appropriate location.
The existing cities will obviously grow anyway, Waterford could add 20,000 easily without even crossing the ring road (this is a strategic policy for the city) by building to the west instead of infilling the already congested eastern third.
People joke about turning Athlone into the next city but why not do that, loads of empty flat land with a river, railway and motorway already installed. Plan to add 200,000 over a generation within a footprint no bigger than Waterford is now would be a good target
Seravia on
While I think the majority of our growth should be in and around our existing major settlements, I don’t see why we shouldn’t also build a few new ones. Ireland’s population has been growing rapidly and will likely continue to do so, so why should we decide to stay with the same five cities that we’ve had since independence? It’s not like any of them are bastions of urban form or design.
There are some interesting places around the country where you could build a sustainable new city with good transit links. Limerick Junction has been mentioned before as a good spot for a new town or city, and Athlone seems like an obvious choice if you wanted to hugely expand one of our existing towns. I think the Ennis-Shannon-Limerick corridor would be an interesting spot. While Shannon town itself is an urban planning failure, the Free Zone was a huge success economically. I’d like to see us try something similar, just with good urbanism this time.
This park refurb in cork coat 7 million and it looks worse then before. Can you imagine the cost of a city in Ireland. You could probably build a country for the price. I’m sure BAM would love to get involved in city building.
SoloWingPixy88 on
Have a development plan for a purpose built city could be a start.
Babyindablender on
Make Enniscorthy a city! I have no logical reason why we should other than do it….
Beginning-Strain4660 on
I’ve posted this numerous times before. And more recently this week
Fantasy I know! Cork as in any urban area needs 3 things.
1. Investment in roads for example a proper north ring road to connect ballincollig and glanmire
2. Investment in public transport – heavy rail, Luas and bus connects – especially bus connects.
3. Urban Active travel. Greenways, safe segregated corridors that connect areas of population, schools, areas of employment. E.g carrigaline to ringaskiddy or ballincollig to UCC
21stCenturyVole on
Judging by the futureville architects, Ireland will have to wait around 2 decades before building a new city, because all of our architects are still in primary school.
SickleCellDiseased on
We need a batman
Sharp_Fuel on
Land value tax, we need more efficient use of space within our cities and we also need to tackle derelict buildings, this would address both
Intelligent-Aside214 on
A new city of 50,000-100,000 should be built around Limerick junction.
Only an hour away from cork and Limerick and less than 2 hours from Waterford and Dublin
Build it Georgian style to match the architecture of Limerick, Georgian buildings aren’t very ornate so shouldn’t be too expensive to build and new Georgian style buildings are built all the time in Dublin
Cill-e-in on
Building new cities almost never works. Countries famous for being good urban planners tried and failed. Run our existing cities properly. Densify along major transport routes eg Luas, DART. Roll out Luas to cities outside of Dublin. Run Ireland like we’re no longer an empty country in the 1930s.
Important-Messages on
Build a new high-rise city in the geographical centre of Ireland, connect to other main centres, NSE&W via hyperloop, a dozen or more problems solved all at once.
Cillian_Dub on
There is a fantastic small museum in Singapore beside the maxwell hawker center, about how the whole city was built including all of the required utilities.
Just some info from the pictures I took there:
A NEED FOR
INNOVATIVE SOLUTIONS
A large portion of land is taken up by industries, transport infrastructure and utilities. To fit all of our needs and make the most of our limited land, we have to optimise the use of each and every plot of land.
Going Bigger
Reclamation increases our land area and enhances our coastal and waterfront environments for housing, leisure and recreation.
From our original size, we have grown by more than 24%. That is more than 17,000 football fields.
Going Underground
Building infrastructure and utilities underground strengthen the reliability and security of these networks.
It expands our space resources, enhances connectivity and accessibility in urban areas. It also frees up valuable surface land for other uses such as parks, homes and
Community spaces
Going Up, Doubling Up
Besides building densely around train and bus stations,
adding complementar faclities such as communty
and entertainment spaces, shops and eateries also saves land. This makes for a more convenient lifestyle
for commuels ar resents.
Going Up, Doubling Up
One-Stop Centres for Services
Homes, offices, and shops can be located in one building to offer greater convenience to users.
Libraries, childcare centres, community clubs and medical centres, each of which used to take up its own plot of land, can be located together to create one-stop centres.
Homes, Offices and Shops
We are ranked gth in the world for the most number of skyscrapers, with more than 80 buildings over 150 m. This is in spite of aviation height controls from our airports and airbases.
Building more densely at accessible places such as the city centre, regional centres and near bus interchanges and MRT train stations ensures that jobs and amenities are within easy reach.
Dual-Use of Land and Sea
We no longer keep people away from reservoirs to keep the water pristine. Now, reservoirs are for both collecting water and recreational enjoyment.
Marina Barrage, for example, is designed to be more than a dam and pumping station. Its green lawn rooftop is a favourite for picnics, kite-flying and great city views.
Going Underground
District Cooling System
An underground system pipes chilled water for air conditioning to many buildings at once.
This centralised system saves energy and frees up roof space for uses such as gardens and even urban farms.
Pedestrian Networks
Pedestrian tunnels connect buildings and help us avoid crossing busy streets. It also protects us from harsh weather. These walkways are often planned to allow for shops and other amenities.
Sewerage System
The Deep Tunnel Sewerage System carries waste water by gravity down to a depth of 60 m, into water reclamation plants. It frees up land previously taken up by pump stations and buffer zones that kept the
“smell” away from residential areas.
Roads and Rails
Parts of our journey around Singapore already take place underground! While underground train lines and roads are more costly to build, their benefits far outweigh the cost.
Storage Caverns
Caverns have potential for significant land savings. They are usually within strong rocks as they are meant to be self-supporting structures. Singapore currently uses caverns for oil storage and ammunition storage.
Utilities Lines
No more road digging and repair works holding up traffic! The Common Services Tunnel in Marina Bay houses chilled water pipes for air-conditioning, potable water and NEWater pipes, electricity and data cables, and future pneumatic waste collection pipes.
Going Bigger
Reclaiming land from the sea is an obvious way of creating new land. In the long term, it can also be used to protect our island from rising sea levels. Still, there are some limitations to this solution.
Singapore is a busy port and has to keep much of our sea space for maritime uses. About 600 ships are anchored off our shores in a 115 sq km “parking lots for ships” at any one time.
Reclamation is an expensive process and for areas deeper than 30 m, sophisticated technology is required. It also needs to be carried out responsibly, in a way that is sensitive to the environment.
18 commenti
Why build a new city instead of expanding the cities (and towns) that already exist?
Edit: True decentralisation in Ireland would really help also.
Filling the brownfield and derelict sites of our existing cities would be a good start and support existing infrastructure. Look at a map of Limerick and look at the amount of half-empty estates that ring the city. If you filled in all of the wasteland around in the Rhebogue, the dock road, Castletroy, Ballysimon and Roxboro, you could add thousands of apartments easily, and that’s before you add in the city centre vacancies around the train station, Cleeves, the island and the medieval quarter.
First. Trasnport. More trains, more buses, more Luas
I thought the startling thing in this article was the bland assumption that we’d have 2 million new residents in 25 years.
If that happens a new city could be part of the solution, but only part, not sorting out the problems in our existing urban areas wouldn’t be an option.
The fact remains, 2 million new residents will more likely leave us with shanty towns stretching to Naas than any type of coordinated solution.
As others said, Ireland already has five official cities, should we not focus on them? Especially as one of the main drivers in Irish cities is their historic nature. A new city won’t have that. Wasn’t Shannon a purpose built town?
Cork Docklands has potential to be one of the most promising developments nationally since Dublin Docklands/IFSC (which, in some opinions, has failed in a number of ways). The Docklands already has three parks of varying sizes, good access to the city centre on foot or bike, a stadium, Kent Train Station, a planned tram, and plenty of undeveloped land ripe for development. The government should be investing in a new road linking the N25 or M28 to Marino Point over the harbour so that the Docklands can be fully voided of industry. The fact this road isn’t happening should be a national scandal. Instead, we have RTE calling for a whole new city to be built..
Tricky one
Do we want expansion of existing cities with their invariably ad hoc incoherence and low density inefficiency or go for a big bang high density new build in a geographically appropriate location.
The existing cities will obviously grow anyway, Waterford could add 20,000 easily without even crossing the ring road (this is a strategic policy for the city) by building to the west instead of infilling the already congested eastern third.
People joke about turning Athlone into the next city but why not do that, loads of empty flat land with a river, railway and motorway already installed. Plan to add 200,000 over a generation within a footprint no bigger than Waterford is now would be a good target
While I think the majority of our growth should be in and around our existing major settlements, I don’t see why we shouldn’t also build a few new ones. Ireland’s population has been growing rapidly and will likely continue to do so, so why should we decide to stay with the same five cities that we’ve had since independence? It’s not like any of them are bastions of urban form or design.
There are some interesting places around the country where you could build a sustainable new city with good transit links. Limerick Junction has been mentioned before as a good spot for a new town or city, and Athlone seems like an obvious choice if you wanted to hugely expand one of our existing towns. I think the Ennis-Shannon-Limerick corridor would be an interesting spot. While Shannon town itself is an urban planning failure, the Free Zone was a huge success economically. I’d like to see us try something similar, just with good urbanism this time.
https://preview.redd.it/26lis3u1oe1g1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=36d78104c210673bd2f5c1dba3e70df7dca3d6ab
This park refurb in cork coat 7 million and it looks worse then before. Can you imagine the cost of a city in Ireland. You could probably build a country for the price. I’m sure BAM would love to get involved in city building.
Have a development plan for a purpose built city could be a start.
Make Enniscorthy a city! I have no logical reason why we should other than do it….
I’ve posted this numerous times before. And more recently this week
Fantasy I know! Cork as in any urban area needs 3 things.
1. Investment in roads for example a proper north ring road to connect ballincollig and glanmire
2. Investment in public transport – heavy rail, Luas and bus connects – especially bus connects.
3. Urban Active travel. Greenways, safe segregated corridors that connect areas of population, schools, areas of employment. E.g carrigaline to ringaskiddy or ballincollig to UCC
Judging by the futureville architects, Ireland will have to wait around 2 decades before building a new city, because all of our architects are still in primary school.
We need a batman
Land value tax, we need more efficient use of space within our cities and we also need to tackle derelict buildings, this would address both
A new city of 50,000-100,000 should be built around Limerick junction.
Only an hour away from cork and Limerick and less than 2 hours from Waterford and Dublin
Build it Georgian style to match the architecture of Limerick, Georgian buildings aren’t very ornate so shouldn’t be too expensive to build and new Georgian style buildings are built all the time in Dublin
Building new cities almost never works. Countries famous for being good urban planners tried and failed. Run our existing cities properly. Densify along major transport routes eg Luas, DART. Roll out Luas to cities outside of Dublin. Run Ireland like we’re no longer an empty country in the 1930s.
Build a new high-rise city in the geographical centre of Ireland, connect to other main centres, NSE&W via hyperloop, a dozen or more problems solved all at once.
There is a fantastic small museum in Singapore beside the maxwell hawker center, about how the whole city was built including all of the required utilities.
Just some info from the pictures I took there:
A NEED FOR
INNOVATIVE SOLUTIONS
A large portion of land is taken up by industries, transport infrastructure and utilities. To fit all of our needs and make the most of our limited land, we have to optimise the use of each and every plot of land.
Going Bigger
Reclamation increases our land area and enhances our coastal and waterfront environments for housing, leisure and recreation.
From our original size, we have grown by more than 24%. That is more than 17,000 football fields.
Going Underground
Building infrastructure and utilities underground strengthen the reliability and security of these networks.
It expands our space resources, enhances connectivity and accessibility in urban areas. It also frees up valuable surface land for other uses such as parks, homes and
Community spaces
Going Up, Doubling Up
Besides building densely around train and bus stations,
adding complementar faclities such as communty
and entertainment spaces, shops and eateries also saves land. This makes for a more convenient lifestyle
for commuels ar resents.
Going Up, Doubling Up
One-Stop Centres for Services
Homes, offices, and shops can be located in one building to offer greater convenience to users.
Libraries, childcare centres, community clubs and medical centres, each of which used to take up its own plot of land, can be located together to create one-stop centres.
Homes, Offices and Shops
We are ranked gth in the world for the most number of skyscrapers, with more than 80 buildings over 150 m. This is in spite of aviation height controls from our airports and airbases.
Building more densely at accessible places such as the city centre, regional centres and near bus interchanges and MRT train stations ensures that jobs and amenities are within easy reach.
Dual-Use of Land and Sea
We no longer keep people away from reservoirs to keep the water pristine. Now, reservoirs are for both collecting water and recreational enjoyment.
Marina Barrage, for example, is designed to be more than a dam and pumping station. Its green lawn rooftop is a favourite for picnics, kite-flying and great city views.
Going Underground
District Cooling System
An underground system pipes chilled water for air conditioning to many buildings at once.
This centralised system saves energy and frees up roof space for uses such as gardens and even urban farms.
Pedestrian Networks
Pedestrian tunnels connect buildings and help us avoid crossing busy streets. It also protects us from harsh weather. These walkways are often planned to allow for shops and other amenities.
Sewerage System
The Deep Tunnel Sewerage System carries waste water by gravity down to a depth of 60 m, into water reclamation plants. It frees up land previously taken up by pump stations and buffer zones that kept the
“smell” away from residential areas.
Roads and Rails
Parts of our journey around Singapore already take place underground! While underground train lines and roads are more costly to build, their benefits far outweigh the cost.
Storage Caverns
Caverns have potential for significant land savings. They are usually within strong rocks as they are meant to be self-supporting structures. Singapore currently uses caverns for oil storage and ammunition storage.
Utilities Lines
No more road digging and repair works holding up traffic! The Common Services Tunnel in Marina Bay houses chilled water pipes for air-conditioning, potable water and NEWater pipes, electricity and data cables, and future pneumatic waste collection pipes.
Going Bigger
Reclaiming land from the sea is an obvious way of creating new land. In the long term, it can also be used to protect our island from rising sea levels. Still, there are some limitations to this solution.
Singapore is a busy port and has to keep much of our sea space for maritime uses. About 600 ships are anchored off our shores in a 115 sq km “parking lots for ships” at any one time.
Reclamation is an expensive process and for areas deeper than 30 m, sophisticated technology is required. It also needs to be carried out responsibly, in a way that is sensitive to the environment.