Possiamo finalmente chiudere il sipario? 600 milioni di europei. Due volte più grande degli Stati Uniti! Unisci gli eserciti europei e fonda l’esercito europeo. Il più grande del mondo
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di goldstarflag
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25 commenti
It’s primarily about money, not the number of servicemen.
I think Europe’s fatal mistake was to ever trust the US as an ally. A country that elects someone like Trump as president is a madhouse. No one should trust such country and you can’t be sure it won’t happen again.
A European army cannot function if you not first make ironclad arrangements around who decides if it gets deployed and how that is decided. You can’t risk a bunch of traitors in government in a few European countries to block it’s use. Until that is resolved, a European army is useless.
If the EU smartly invests nearly €1T every year for 10 years we *may* achieve that, but the EU is too slow doing anything
stop using Microsoft Windows and Azure in every public computer/system in all Europe, is the enemy OS invading our Privacy
Use SUSE ( european company OS ) as replacement
It’s amazing and fascinating no?
That over 80 years of friendship build by blood and sacrifice has to be destroyed because of narcissistic emperor in Washington DC is not having his own way.
It’s is actually heart-wrenching what we are witnessing right now.
Won’t happen without a unified foreign policy and the only way that happens is with federalization which will never ever happen
Can they all speak English?
Otherwise it would be like Austria-Hungary all over again.
I see a lot of bullshit going on in this sub lately, so let’s clear things up a bit.
1. The first country to benefit from a split between US and EU is Russia, never forget that.
2. Regardless of what US and Russia do, European Countries are and will always be divided, because of the millenias of history that each part of the continent has. Therefore expecting 500 million people to magically start working together is pure nonsense.
3. The all concept of European Countries coexisting in peace is something that was possible ONLY with the presence of the US on European soil after WW2. There wouldn’t be any EU without US.
4. It’s very important that European Countries start taking their defence and the Russian threat seriously, with all the necessary steps be taken. But this weird European chauvinism is not the way, simply because European Countries are internally divided on many issues, so trying to turbo charge an integration that was badly planned from the beginning is not going to improve the situation.
5. I know that hating on US is the European national sport, and the current administration isn’t helping. But we are not even close from being able to renounce to the Atlantic relationship. Even if you despise Americans, we simply can’t. If we do that we are simply running into Russian arms. Literally.
Sorry, but I do not want to share our army with the rest of Europe. Scandinavia maybe. There is too much political interference across the continent for everyone to have a shared army.
There are already states today that counteract nearly every attempt at cooperation across the EU, militarily, economically, and socially.
I understand why 20+ different armies are not as strong as one combined force. But when the political mandate behind such a force is compromised by states that are more focused on debating plastic straws versus paper and similar issues, I truly believe that the political decision on how to deploy an army should remain with the individual member states.
What Europe needs is to resurrect the 1952 Defence Union 🇪🇺. Those plans were very advanced and include a European Army. Nato would effectively become a two-pillar organization; both pillars able to act together but also independently. This must also be democratically embedded within the EU. European Parliament made the first step last month with passing the resolution for a European Command and Control structure.
There’s broad support across the political spectrum for a geopolitical Europe. From north to south and from left to right;
https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1o2xein/european_parliament_agreed_on_a_resolution_for/
What nation would voluntarily get rid of one of most important instruments of own sovereignity?
And what would command structure of that army be?
Who would be commander in chief? Would there even be commander in chief, and would he come from civil or military sector?
Many questions unanswered for dangerous idea
Europe will go through its most intense test. The world’s second-largest economy will either be at the table or on the table and the games are already starting.
I hope with all my heart that it will succeed.
First kick Hungary out
The US will surely have destroyed itself through civil war within the next 3 years. The EU needs to get its act together. Putin won’t stop at Ukraine.
How about nuclear weapons, energy, aircraft ship and space technology?
Europe should definitely do this
This could be a path to true federalization. Even if it doesn’t include all current members from day 1 (nor does it have to)
That’s one twirly moustache there. It leads to images of old european leaders who were not exactly “in it for the people”.
It’s nice to theorize, but I don’t know how you’d sell something like that to the Polish public. Good luck popularizing the idea that Germans and Belgians will decide whether Poles end up in the meat grinder or not. To this day they still cannot forgive the attached caps.
And if you introduce unanimity, one country will block your entire military operation.
If there were a single fixed salary, Eastern EU would be greatly overrepresented in the military. Let’s say 3,000 euros is significantly more here than in the West. They would complain why we are the ones who actually defend Europe and others make the decisions. If it were adjusted to the salaries in a given country, there would be a lot of confusion about why Western lives are worth more than ours.
If we revert the EU back to a pre Maastricht treaty state and end the authoritarianism and political centralisation then I’m all for an EU army.
But that won’t happen without violence so I can’t support more centralisation.
This is just my opinion, I’m not an expert…
We are allies! Now don’t get me wrong, under trump, the US isn’t a reliable ally, however we would be quite delirious and demented to believe that we can exceed the US and make moves without needing them.
Why? Because look at how just recently, ruSSia and china have held military drills on ruSSian territory as a reminder to us that they work together, peas in a pod…
Do we believe that we can take on ruSSia? We likely could, but take on china too? Without the US? I highly doubt it.
Do we produce good tanks, anti-aircraft systems, ships, jets etc… yes. Do we produce enough of those elements? Nope, we are well behind on that score because whilst we lived peacefully the past decades, our enemies have prepared for war.
Although I’m against war – it’s time.
Yeah, if we weren’t so split up, and without all the outer influences driving more wedges ever deeper into our unity all the time, we might stand a chance. In the end, noone wants to feel left behind or has his/her sovereignty diminished.
We’d really have to collectively go against our human nature to get our shit together well en ough to pull that off.
….. No?