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    I ragazzi “delusi dalla mancanza di modelli di comportamento”

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    3. thereforewhat on

      We see this story again and again. Ultimately though, secular society rarely affirms men and rarely presents a positive view of masculinity. 

      Is it any wonder we see this then?

      I know this will be unpopular, but on Easter Sunday maybe it might be worth suggesting that Christianity can and does offer a positive view of masculinity for men to follow and a positive man for men to follow in Jesus Christ?

      I’m yet to see any good secular alternative.  

    5. Cheap-Rate-8996 on

      I feel like in 20-30 years we’ll look back on this era as strange in the same way we look back at people in the 90s burning Pokemon cards and Dungeons and Dragons for being ‘Satanic’. Just completely out of proportion to the supposed problem.

      A few grifters have a business model of selling online courses to gullible, romantically inept rubes and we’ve somehow deduced from this that 13 year old boys are all ticking timebombs and potential murderers. Andrew Tate will be the end of civilisation! [Actual evidence showing kids are doing better than previous generations,](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-kids-are-all-right) who needs that?

    7. peareauxThoughts on

      There’s this strange aversion over the last decades to say men and women are different, as if that’s exclusionary.

      I get government adverts on here saying “controlling what she wears is abuse”. Yet this is a daily reality for most married men.

    8. hitanthrope on

      I feel like the culture has made it clear to me that, as a middled aged, white man, I am part of the problem. On what basis am I supposed to be compelled to be a “role model”?

      I think it’s all falling apart very very rapidly now anyway. The only role model advice I have for this generation of kids is to wish them the very best of luck.

    9. MultiMidden on

      We’ve always had single parent families specifically mums (e.g. after WW2), but there will nearly always have been a family male role model (as well as someone a lad can talk to about boys issues) could be a grandad or an uncle.

      What has changed over the past few decades is that we now have multi-generational single parent families, so there’s a very real chance there is no grandad or uncle to be a role model for a boy (or a girl even as they need to see how normal men behave).

      Then there are schools, back in the 70/80s there were far more male teachers in primary schools. Had a look at the staff list of my old primary school >90% of the staff are female. It does get better at secondary level, but it’s not 50/50 balance, men have gone from the majority back in my day to the minority.

      In such a vacuum boys will seek out stuff on the internet and end-up with people like Andrew Tate.

    10. jeanclaudebrowncloud on

      There has been a noticeable rise in cocky litttle twats recently. Don’t know how much role models will solve this. It does seem to be a generation of unsocialised ipad babies who have only known environmental, economic, and social collapse. As much as they’re annoying and sometimes violent and misogynistic, maybe blame parents and society a bit. There’s a load of awful, regressive content online freely available. Why do you think so many women are being called foids? Why do you think antisemitism is rising? Because of online brainrot from grifters targeting boys with no prospects. Demonising the kids doesn’t seem to be working, if anything they seem to resent it.

    11. Nuthetes on

      They’re not wrong. Today’s kids see jackass YouTubers and TikTokers becoming multi-millionaire celebrities by behaving like cunts and decide to emulate that behaviour, thinking they too can go viral and become a millionaire by filming themselves harrassing an old man out shopping or pretending to steal someone’s phone or screaming in women’s faces.

      There aren’t many positive male role models

    12. evolveandprosper on

      Maybe boys are let down by the lack of roles that men can perform in order to become “role models”. When we have a clear definition/description of what these roles should be then we might get more role models. Is being an obedient wage slave, working long hours at tedious unskilled work for minimum pay whilst never complaining the kind of role they have in mind? Or maybe becoming rich and powerful by any means possible regardless of the welfare of others? Is it protecting the weak or allowing others to see your weakness? Is it being strong, resilient and uncomplaining or is it openly expressing emotion and sharing problems? Is it being strong and assertive or cooperative and non-competitive?

      I realise that some of the alternatives given are not necessarily mutually exclusive BUT there is a distinct lack of clarity about what society expects from men in general. Then, surprise surprise, there is much hand-wringing when caricatures of conventional old-school masculinity start to gain followers from the ranks of confused adolescents. Some of the role model advocates need to “walk the talk” and show us what they mean.

    13. MondeyMondey on

      Aren’t there still role models? There are still footballers, musicians, actors, activists, all the stuff that traditionally qualified. Boys today can’t look up to Stephen Graham or Fred Again or Saka or whoever?

    14. nerdylernin on

      Role models is an easy and cheap (non) answer to a systemic social problem. If you want to engage boys in society then you have to make more of an effort to make them feel welcomed into that society. If they aren’t then they will look for a place where they are made to feel welcome and for some that will be the online grifters.

    15. LongShow5279 on

      Fake news… There are plenty of role models… Just ask Dakota Johnson’s boyfriend.

    16. let_me_atom on

      We demonise boys and tell them they’re the root of all of civilizations problems, then in the same day we say there’s a “masculinity problem” and boys have no one (deemed suitable and appropriately santized, with the correct views) to look up to. The kids don’t stand a chance. Truly weird times.

    17. Gone_4_Tea on

      How to educate and hold people accountable for basic parenting. Education and ongoing support.

      I know it is completely alternate universe stuff and completely dystopian/unworkable in human reality but I would have people pass tests to vote and become parents among other things.

    18. Practical-Purchase-9 on

      Who is supposed to be their role model? As a male teacher I don’t see many students looking to me or other male teachers for a role model despite them seeing us every day, they’d rather listen to knobheads selling snake oil on the internet.

    19. hadawayandshite on

      My take:

      First; There isn’t anything inherently toxic about masculinity, there are traits which CAN be toxic-or they can not be. It’s all about intensity.

      Being competitive or trying to take charge can be good…but they can also be bad. It depends on the person, the situation and so on (e.g assuming by you should be in charge and deferred to automatically despite others having just as much knowledge and skill as you)….and how much they try to apply their views onto others. (And example is my wife has been watching MAFS and there was a guy saying his wife is too masculine because she has a career and he as a man should be the dominant one in the relationship), I’d personally not put that down to his masculinity but rather say he was a C-word…but I can see that belief would be more prevalent in men

      Men and women can both show these toxic traits—-it might be possible that men show some traits more than women (and vice versa) due to either inherent differences or socialisation (but both sexes have all of the traits- the different within sex is greater than between sexes as always)

      Now- it makes sense that these ‘toxic traits’ more associated with masculinity be labelled as ‘toxic masculinity’ and be tackled but the label and the discussion causes problems due to it being a compound adjective which ends up with the idea of ‘toxicity’ being applied to much of masculinity rather than just the ‘toxic bits’

      It’s possible that we want to prioritise changing ‘toxic masculinity’ because it’s more prevalent or more damaging than ‘toxic femininity’—either in prevalence or impact

      Humans are complicated both as individuals and in groups, even if people mean positive things by tackling toxic masculinity they can do it in a haphazard or hamfisted way which makes some parts of the situation better and others worse

      What’s important is teaching young people (male and female) to identify ‘toxic’ elements in their own behaviour- how to spot those exploiting their weaknesses and how to self-improve…..but that’s a lot to put on schools, it needs to start at home. However we have flawed people (as we all are) raising more flawed people and stuff like ubiquity of social media and influencers isn’t going to help

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