Innanzitutto sono irlandese, ma ho lasciato l’Irlanda circa 15 anni fa. Amo la lingua irlandese e credo che dovremmo fare tutto il possibile per preservarla. Ho anche vissuto in diversi paesi e posso parlare francese, spagnolo e tedesco almeno a livello di conversazione.
Ho studiato l’irlandese a scuola sia a Dublino che a Belfast, ma non lo parlo affatto fluentemente come nelle altre lingue. Recentemente ho partecipato a un evento di scambio culturale fuori dall’Irlanda dove ho incontrato studenti irlandesi post-scuola e membri delle comunità di Gaeltacht.
Alcuni dei parlanti del Gaeltacht si sono lamentati del fatto che i dublinesi e i parlanti di Belfast parlassero la lingua in modo errato. Ciò è stato detto davanti all’altro gruppo, alcuni dei quali provenivano da Dublino e altri da Newry e dalle zone vicine a Belfast, prima ancora che avessero parlato. Alcune persone hanno sentito questo e hanno osservato che “sentono questo atteggiamento da parecchi parlanti irlandesi”.
Lo stesso relatore del Gaeltacht è poi salito sul podio e ha parlato degli effetti del colonialismo sulla lingua irlandese. Ma il motivo per cui i dublinesi e i residenti di Belfast non parlano irlandese così frequentemente come quelli del Gaeltacht è proprio a causa del colonialismo.
Poi ha cliccato. Ho già sentito questa retorica. Quando vivevo a Belfast, sentivo persone lamentarsi degli effetti del colonialismo, eppure alcune di quelle stesse persone ci scoraggiavano del tutto dal parlare irlandese. La stessa cosa è successa quando vivevo a Dublino. L’ho sentito dalla società Gaeltacht dell’UCD e persino dai miei insegnanti a scuola.
Perché ho ricevuto più incoraggiamento quando parlavo lingue straniere rispetto a quando parlavo la mia lingua ancestrale? Imparare una lingua è un processo delicato e richiede incoraggiamento, non scoraggiamento.
Sostengo pienamente la preservazione della cultura del Gaeltacht, ma l’irlandese è per tutti, non solo per pochi eletti.
Concludo con un vecchio articolo del Tempi irlandesi che colpisce nel segno:
Il mio irlandese non è il massimo, ma ci provo. Tuttavia, questo non è abbastanza buono. Ho ricevuto commenti sprezzanti su “46A Irish” e mi sono trovato in situazioni di gruppo in cui i parlanti irlandesi sono passati dal parlare irlandese a coloro con cui stavano conversando, al parlare inglese con me. È doloroso ed escludente. E indovina un po’? Ti fa venire voglia di non parlarne.
Lo snobismo nei confronti dell’irlandese è reale, così come lo è lo snobismo al suo interno. La lingua non è un reperto da museo in una teca di vetro che necessita di essere lucidata alla perfezione. È una cosa che funziona, vive, respira. E in termini di livelli di fluidità, l’intento di parlarlo, anche se ciò significa afferrarsi alle parole o "Lingua inglese" – è valido quanto la prosa poetica che sgorga da un madrelingua.
I get the impression that some speakers of Irish are reluctant for others to speak the language, yet they also complain about its decline.
byu/Appropriate-Arm1377 inireland
di Appropriate-Arm1377
14 commenti
Begrudgery? In Ireland? Never!
Bearlachas only weakens the language compared to historically if taking a specific snapshot of it as being “correct”. Im not too pushed on what language people speak (utilitarian view) but if people are advocating for irish they should be ok with general usage which isnt going to be perfect.
Everyone’s experiences are different but out home in County Galway, there’s parts of the Gaeltacht where you’ll have a hard time getting anything back in Irish if your *blas* doesn’t sound like you were born, reared and are set to be buried less than two miles from the spot you’re standing. There’s lads out past Spiddal where it’s as simple as, if they don’t know ya, you’re not getting a word of Irish out of them.
I’m from Spiddal but grew up in an English speaking family and while my Irish is rock solid, there’s no budging some people, because they can hear that my Irish is learnt rather than inherited, even when I’m going into the *blas* two-footed.
By the same token, there’s people out in Connemara who will reward you for having a go and make an effort to give it back to you in Irish if you start off that way. Luck of the draw.
One last thing: all sums of money are discussed in English. That was always the language of business and so it remains.
G’luck / ádh mór.
Learners need to be less defensive about their Irish being worse than native speakers. I say this as a learner.
If they are passionate about the language, they should learn to imitate the sounds of native Irish. As we strive to do when learning French or German.
It’s like the guy who’s really into that band you’ve probably never even heard of. They’re so amazing but all you appreciate is mainstream rubbish. God he has such superior music taste, it really shows how clever and interesting he is.
That guy does not want that band to become hugely and ubiquitously popular.
> But the reason Dubliners and Belfast residents don’t speak Irish as frequently as those in the Gaeltacht is precisely because of colonialism.
That reason stands across the whole island.
To be fair, people in Belfast and the north have been very active in reviving the language. There are plenty of ciorcail comhrá across dublin.
Fair plé OP for enjoying the language. If there are people who seem elitist, they are a minority. I think most Irish speakers would be very happy to speak to you.
My feelings are always evolving on this but i’ll say that im not a native speaker (Im b2, working on C1) so im learning a language that is not “mine” yet so i dont get to have opinions that are more valid than native speakers. Ditto if im a French learner, Parisians get to tell me their opinions on their language and i’ll listen because im a learner.
Languages have a series of sounds that you need to work on. If you aren’t using them then you’re mispronouncing the words, as is the case in any language where you are a learner.
It’s absolutely not a museum language. You aren’t resurrecting it, it’s alive and well in many, many areas and you’re trying to shoehorn in another version of it and claim that it’s as valid when it’s just not.
I’m not sure where you are from but there is a good chance you could just learn the phonetics from close to your native place, there are recordings.
I struggle with Irish, hated it as a kid, genuinely terrified me.
I tried again to learn as an adult but found when I tried to engage with it, people who did speak Irish would be very sneery towards my lack of fluency
Not a new phenomenon. Forty years ago, an Irish speaker I knew was aware that I didn’t speak Irish well and (incorrectly) assumed that therefore I didn’t understand it well. In conversation as Gaeilge with another Irish speaker, he started making smart-alec remarks at my expense. When I reacted ‘robustly’ he soon shut up!
I don’t speak Irish but I spend a significant amount of time in the Gaeltacht, I think it stems from the fact often Irish learners come in with an almost Disneyland view of the place that rubs the residents up the wrong way. When your visitors come to experience “authentic Irish” it can make the native speakers feel like a tourist attraction themsleves. They are certainly patient with people who live there and speak Irish imperfectly, it just becomes tiring to be teaching Irish when they are trying to sell a cup of coffee.
I read the article (from 2014). I disagree with some of the facts in that story for a start. I think a lot has changed in 12 years. I get where you are coming from: You had an experience where an Irish speaker seemed to belittle efforts twds speaking Irish Vs Same ‘type’ lamenting erosion of the language. Overall,it would be a great misjudgment to assume that the *majority* of fluent Irish speakers share this trait.
Colonialism has had a detrimental effect on the language & although colonists were a catalyst in the demise of Irish, . many native Irish speakers, cleargy, teachers, people in public & in power shunned, ridiculed and beat people who spoke Irish. There was an enormous shame associated with the language. Generational trauma.
I can speak Irish, and can recount many instances where people in public (English speakers) made fun of me speaking Irish. The shoe can also be put on the other foot.
Thankfully, there is a tide of change happening wrt the language and attitudes towards it. I think minority ‘elitist’ attitudes are on the wane. Irish courses are very full at the moment and many people thankfully, are having a positive experience.
It’s great that you are making an effort to learn the language. 👍
It’s empowering to create something with what you have – it grounds the language and solidifies ownership or being a custodian of it. It’s not ‘owned‘ by the tiny minority type you refer to so you are very free to claim the language for yourself
There are a few things that I think can be problematic- one of is hard to pronounce sounds in Irish like slender r’s. It’s become ubiquitous in the North-East to not slenderise r’s (think Doire as ‘Dirra’ as opposed to something more like… Doy-ya. It’s hard to write phonetically. Or obair as ‘ubber’). And I mean this is in published textbooks that come with recordings and taught in classes in Derry and Belfast. Sometimes this changes the meaning (think rothar versus rothair). I think it can be tricky, because I think if you’re from Belfast you will just never sound like you are from Gaoth Dobhair, no matter how hard you try. But I think making best efforts helps. The other side is; best efforts should be recognised.
In the Gaeltacht, I wouldn’t necessarily expect people to speak Irish to me as an adult learner. If they’re just going about their daily business, they don’t want to prolong interactions so they can be someone’s practical language tutorial. Especially if they are at work. It’s probably quicker to speak English to someone who hasn’t good Irish.
cos irish people are pathetic and cant stand when you’re better than them at something
Is fearr Gaeilge bhriste ná Béarla cliste.