There’s mix of personal choice and economic reality here it’s not just one factor driving this , people are just being more honest about what they want out of life nowÂ
Elisind on
Tbh I think young adults in the past 50 years have doubted whether they wanted it and many of them choose to do it after all. I’m an older millennial and many of my generation also had this doubt (including myself) and most of us have children now. A few are happily or unhappily childfree.
imtired-boss on
Let’s rephrase this and tell the truth that younger generations don’t give in to their elders’ pressure to have kids no matter what.
Governments and companies take less and less care of parents and prefer the constant availability of childless adults.
Tinusers on
Since there are almost no houses available for below 400/500k young couples rather wait or just don’t have kids.
It’s all on the older generation who does not want to build more houses since it would decrease the worth of their own house they bought for cheap and more then doubled in price.
Crafty_Aspect8122 on
What do these psychos expect? For people to live in crowded miserable conditions with no money at the mercy of the aristocracy?
Or for everyone magically being able to afford 1 million+ housing?
greenpowerman99 on
Young people often don’t know what they want to do in future because they think they will live forever…
TokyoBaguette on
Just being consumers….
FrostPegasus on
As long as a family needs two full-time incomes to survive, childbirth will remain low. Simple as that.
Exowienqt on
Dad of 2 months here. The isolation is unreal. I know that it will be better, but I have not felt this unseen, lonely and tired I have ever been. I love my child to pieces, but the sacrifices are signifficant in every single aspect of life. If either me or my partner made 20% less than what we do, I don’t think we would have been able to afford this singular child.Â
gerningur on
Do we have any earlier data points. Like was this number higher or lower in say 2010.
Also, like others have said this attitute often changes as people enter their 30s
Punmkin on
Many non-human animals regulate their population when living conditions become adverse in a given environment. The human species is no exception. Plus, there are still more than enough births on this planet.
Odd-Future1037 on
Everyone I know that has more than 2 kids is a millionaire, which is an absurd state of affairs imo.
jaaval on
The only option we probably have going forward is to make people without kids pay drastically more taxes. That would be both fair, since they get to use their money for themselves rather than supporting the society, and self regulating as kids would still be net benefit for economy even if tax revenue shrinks with more kids.
And people can cry about it but there is a societal collapse looming otherwise because we can’t keep just borrowing money to support current system.
Demode93 on
Don’t or can’t? There’s a difference
Bubbly-Attempt-1313 on
4 months maternity leave (4 paternity, 8 in total), 2K for a nursery per month (and kinder garden) for 5 days if you go back to work full time, housing prices through the roof, no housing availability in general (unless you pay a decent amount). Even those who want kids have doubts.
breinbanaan on
I’m one of them and do not want children. Can’t bear to bring up kids in this society / environmental degradation
VisibleReport5008 on
If you look at birth rates at the year 2000 for example, the rates are still low(1.4 europe average). This isnt all about economy.
Kurainuz on
Not dutch but me and most of my then highschool friends are childless right now, the only 2 exceptions being the rich guy and the girl whos always wanted to form a family.
Me i woukd have kids if i didnt risk my economic wellbeing doing so, but my gf and I have talked about it and only if we could do it without risking not being able to at least save a bit while doing so.
Specially as woth next elections the favourite party will privatize healthcare and services more. I just dont want to have a kid if thst means ruining our economy wich would suck for us, but even more for the kid
Sad-Engine6561 on
To governments who are bitching about their ciritzens not wanting to reproduce i suggest trying the following: 1) give people spacious, affordable, decent housing 2) give decent child support, and especially raise benefits for second, third etc. child. Importantly, people should not feel that they become pooper by having a child.
-Ultra_Violence- on
I want a family, but capitalism and rightwing governments for 50 years plus has made this impossible.
MechanicalCenturion on
I would compare it with IVFs usage.
I find very selfish to have kids at the end of your 40s because you got FOMO.
Still legal, but my dude, you cannot and should not eat the cake and have it too.
TheGalator on
It is insane how reddit still parrots the same stuff about this topic without either looking at data or surveys of young women.
Its not the economy. Its not even housing and Its not a change in social pressure.
#Its literally just choice.
Having children sucks. From multiple standpoints. Even under perfectly conditions it nukes your body and personal freedom and PROBABLY also your social life
So guess what? We don’t want to have children anymore.
#and guess what countries with high birthrates have all in common?
Exactly. Women can’t prevent themselves from having children.
So unless the government’s figure out a way how to compensate us for it this problems isn’t gonna go away
#WHY DO YOU THINK THE FAR RIGHT WANTS TO BAN ABORTION AND CONTRACEPTION?
because its the easiest and by a VERY VERY lagre margin the best way to Increase birthrates
People always claim its something else and “if everything would be perfect I would want children” but that’s all men. When it comes down to it women still chose no children or, and thats way way more common, have 1 child. And thats a lot of work and they can’t imagine double the amount. So they stixk with 1
#And guess what. A fertility rate of 1 is unsustainable
OliveCompetitive3002 on
Sad. These people will skip what matters most in life.
quaxoid on
great
petterri on
As a childfree person, it’s fascinating to me how inevitably under such post there will be people arguing how expensive it is to rise a child or how housing market is challenging, but almost no one from those commenting seems to entertain a though that some people might not want to have babies, and that such approach doesn’t invalidate choice of others to reproduce
Bazzzookah on
Meanwhile, most people in Bulgaria, Greece, and Italy remain childless or have one single child in their 40s.
jesussays51 on
I didn’t want kids as a young adult. I changed my mind though when I got to 36 and have had two. The only regret I have is that my knees would have been better suited to having kids 10 years earlier, although we would have been very poor.
GianMach on
For a lot of them it’s “not under these circumstances” rather than “not at all ever”.
For myself I’d like to have kids, but I’m gay and this country practically eliminated both surrogacy and adoption, so there are little options left for us
garbagecan1992 on
is it really a surprise people go for the utilitarian approach ( cost benefit of children ) when education-formation does not teach about the importance or value of parenthood?
i d even argue it teaches against it. even if it did not, the reality of both parents working + normalizing not having help from people around sure do
economical pressures and expectations do impact the cost benefit view of children, but if having children is a pure cost benefit preposition ( or worse ) then it ll only get worse. to have the act of having children escape cost benefit analysis in current society you have to be so poor or so rich it does not impact your lifestyle expectations
countries with immigrant pull will keep the status quo going for longer ( and even longer if their immigrant program actually attracts net payers ) but don t be delusional if a system is not sustainable it ll be changed
kastbort2021 on
18 to 35 is a broad age range. What does this distribution look like? I’d imagine it being quite skewed toward the younger side.
Also, I’ve met plenty of early-to-mid 30s people that didn’t want kids, but then a couple of years later suddenly wanted (and tried).
FWIW I don’t have any kids myself, but I’m pushing 40 and live in northern Europe. My high-school class was small, just 24 in my class.
One interesting observation is that some became parents quite early, as in between age 16 and 20, almost no-one in their 20s, and the majority after they hit 30. Especially the guys. 1/3 of the guys in our class have become fathers *after* 35.
Bruggenmeister on
People used to have 8-12 kids on a single worker’s income and a stay at home mom…now u have 2 fulltime working parents to pay for a single kids daycare.
Common_North_5267 on
It’s okay the fertility rate amongst immigrants and asylum seekers is nearly 2x higher than Dutch women. You will just be replaced eventually.
No2Morrows on
We have to start planning for a world where the population does not grow or even shrinks. We cannot ( or do not want to) keep stacking people. There is an upper limit to what the global resources can sustain.
hot_space_pizza on
Does anyone remember Sir David Attenborough saying we all need to have fewer kids for the sake of the species?
FrancescoPlays on
Yeah look at our governments
thuarr on
In essence it’s a combination of A) cost-of-living, B) uncertainty about the future, C) lifestyle choice but massively underrated is simply D) the costs and burden of children. There are so many costs, expectations and lifestyle ‘sacrifices’ nowadays that come with raising children in a way that is incomparable to prior generations or countries that have a general lower quality of life. Yes it’s partially a first world problem. But it’s one that has made the economic and partly the social burden too much to make having children feel like an enticing option for young adults.
AcrobaticSplit9014 on
This is not a good thing.
vikiiingur on
besides the obvious economic reasons and global trends, have any of you also noticed the cultural shift? Ladies on dating apps (I assume singles) have mostly photos with alcohol in their hands, and their most important hobby is festivals and salsa dancing… I mean, sure, everyone wants to have fun, but having a baby is not fun like these… why should one swipe right?
No_Conversation_9325 on
When parents need to dedicate most of 1 out of 2 incomes to pay childcare, what is the government counting on? Let alone the expectations that a woman will shoot the kid out and be back to work within 16 weeks (4 before, 12 after)? And guess why whole 12 weeks? Nurseries don’t accept the responsibility for babies younger than 3 months old.
39 commenti
There’s mix of personal choice and economic reality here it’s not just one factor driving this , people are just being more honest about what they want out of life nowÂ
Tbh I think young adults in the past 50 years have doubted whether they wanted it and many of them choose to do it after all. I’m an older millennial and many of my generation also had this doubt (including myself) and most of us have children now. A few are happily or unhappily childfree.
Let’s rephrase this and tell the truth that younger generations don’t give in to their elders’ pressure to have kids no matter what.
Governments and companies take less and less care of parents and prefer the constant availability of childless adults.
Since there are almost no houses available for below 400/500k young couples rather wait or just don’t have kids.
It’s all on the older generation who does not want to build more houses since it would decrease the worth of their own house they bought for cheap and more then doubled in price.
What do these psychos expect? For people to live in crowded miserable conditions with no money at the mercy of the aristocracy?
Or for everyone magically being able to afford 1 million+ housing?
Young people often don’t know what they want to do in future because they think they will live forever…
Just being consumers….
As long as a family needs two full-time incomes to survive, childbirth will remain low. Simple as that.
Dad of 2 months here. The isolation is unreal. I know that it will be better, but I have not felt this unseen, lonely and tired I have ever been. I love my child to pieces, but the sacrifices are signifficant in every single aspect of life. If either me or my partner made 20% less than what we do, I don’t think we would have been able to afford this singular child.Â
Do we have any earlier data points. Like was this number higher or lower in say 2010.
Also, like others have said this attitute often changes as people enter their 30s
Many non-human animals regulate their population when living conditions become adverse in a given environment. The human species is no exception. Plus, there are still more than enough births on this planet.
Everyone I know that has more than 2 kids is a millionaire, which is an absurd state of affairs imo.
The only option we probably have going forward is to make people without kids pay drastically more taxes. That would be both fair, since they get to use their money for themselves rather than supporting the society, and self regulating as kids would still be net benefit for economy even if tax revenue shrinks with more kids.
And people can cry about it but there is a societal collapse looming otherwise because we can’t keep just borrowing money to support current system.
Don’t or can’t? There’s a difference
4 months maternity leave (4 paternity, 8 in total), 2K for a nursery per month (and kinder garden) for 5 days if you go back to work full time, housing prices through the roof, no housing availability in general (unless you pay a decent amount). Even those who want kids have doubts.
I’m one of them and do not want children. Can’t bear to bring up kids in this society / environmental degradation
If you look at birth rates at the year 2000 for example, the rates are still low(1.4 europe average). This isnt all about economy.
Not dutch but me and most of my then highschool friends are childless right now, the only 2 exceptions being the rich guy and the girl whos always wanted to form a family.
Me i woukd have kids if i didnt risk my economic wellbeing doing so, but my gf and I have talked about it and only if we could do it without risking not being able to at least save a bit while doing so.
Specially as woth next elections the favourite party will privatize healthcare and services more. I just dont want to have a kid if thst means ruining our economy wich would suck for us, but even more for the kid
To governments who are bitching about their ciritzens not wanting to reproduce i suggest trying the following: 1) give people spacious, affordable, decent housing 2) give decent child support, and especially raise benefits for second, third etc. child. Importantly, people should not feel that they become pooper by having a child.
I want a family, but capitalism and rightwing governments for 50 years plus has made this impossible.
I would compare it with IVFs usage.
I find very selfish to have kids at the end of your 40s because you got FOMO.
Still legal, but my dude, you cannot and should not eat the cake and have it too.
It is insane how reddit still parrots the same stuff about this topic without either looking at data or surveys of young women.
Its not the economy. Its not even housing and Its not a change in social pressure.
#Its literally just choice.
Having children sucks. From multiple standpoints. Even under perfectly conditions it nukes your body and personal freedom and PROBABLY also your social life
So guess what? We don’t want to have children anymore.
#and guess what countries with high birthrates have all in common?
Exactly. Women can’t prevent themselves from having children.
So unless the government’s figure out a way how to compensate us for it this problems isn’t gonna go away
#WHY DO YOU THINK THE FAR RIGHT WANTS TO BAN ABORTION AND CONTRACEPTION?
because its the easiest and by a VERY VERY lagre margin the best way to Increase birthrates
People always claim its something else and “if everything would be perfect I would want children” but that’s all men. When it comes down to it women still chose no children or, and thats way way more common, have 1 child. And thats a lot of work and they can’t imagine double the amount. So they stixk with 1
#And guess what. A fertility rate of 1 is unsustainable
Sad. These people will skip what matters most in life.
great
As a childfree person, it’s fascinating to me how inevitably under such post there will be people arguing how expensive it is to rise a child or how housing market is challenging, but almost no one from those commenting seems to entertain a though that some people might not want to have babies, and that such approach doesn’t invalidate choice of others to reproduce
Meanwhile, most people in Bulgaria, Greece, and Italy remain childless or have one single child in their 40s.
I didn’t want kids as a young adult. I changed my mind though when I got to 36 and have had two. The only regret I have is that my knees would have been better suited to having kids 10 years earlier, although we would have been very poor.
For a lot of them it’s “not under these circumstances” rather than “not at all ever”.
For myself I’d like to have kids, but I’m gay and this country practically eliminated both surrogacy and adoption, so there are little options left for us
is it really a surprise people go for the utilitarian approach ( cost benefit of children ) when education-formation does not teach about the importance or value of parenthood?
i d even argue it teaches against it. even if it did not, the reality of both parents working + normalizing not having help from people around sure do
economical pressures and expectations do impact the cost benefit view of children, but if having children is a pure cost benefit preposition ( or worse ) then it ll only get worse. to have the act of having children escape cost benefit analysis in current society you have to be so poor or so rich it does not impact your lifestyle expectations
countries with immigrant pull will keep the status quo going for longer ( and even longer if their immigrant program actually attracts net payers ) but don t be delusional if a system is not sustainable it ll be changed
18 to 35 is a broad age range. What does this distribution look like? I’d imagine it being quite skewed toward the younger side.
Also, I’ve met plenty of early-to-mid 30s people that didn’t want kids, but then a couple of years later suddenly wanted (and tried).
FWIW I don’t have any kids myself, but I’m pushing 40 and live in northern Europe. My high-school class was small, just 24 in my class.
One interesting observation is that some became parents quite early, as in between age 16 and 20, almost no-one in their 20s, and the majority after they hit 30. Especially the guys. 1/3 of the guys in our class have become fathers *after* 35.
People used to have 8-12 kids on a single worker’s income and a stay at home mom…now u have 2 fulltime working parents to pay for a single kids daycare.
It’s okay the fertility rate amongst immigrants and asylum seekers is nearly 2x higher than Dutch women. You will just be replaced eventually.
We have to start planning for a world where the population does not grow or even shrinks. We cannot ( or do not want to) keep stacking people. There is an upper limit to what the global resources can sustain.
Does anyone remember Sir David Attenborough saying we all need to have fewer kids for the sake of the species?
Yeah look at our governments
In essence it’s a combination of A) cost-of-living, B) uncertainty about the future, C) lifestyle choice but massively underrated is simply D) the costs and burden of children. There are so many costs, expectations and lifestyle ‘sacrifices’ nowadays that come with raising children in a way that is incomparable to prior generations or countries that have a general lower quality of life. Yes it’s partially a first world problem. But it’s one that has made the economic and partly the social burden too much to make having children feel like an enticing option for young adults.
This is not a good thing.
besides the obvious economic reasons and global trends, have any of you also noticed the cultural shift? Ladies on dating apps (I assume singles) have mostly photos with alcohol in their hands, and their most important hobby is festivals and salsa dancing… I mean, sure, everyone wants to have fun, but having a baby is not fun like these… why should one swipe right?
When parents need to dedicate most of 1 out of 2 incomes to pay childcare, what is the government counting on? Let alone the expectations that a woman will shoot the kid out and be back to work within 16 weeks (4 before, 12 after)? And guess why whole 12 weeks? Nurseries don’t accept the responsibility for babies younger than 3 months old.