People Before Profit vuole che i supermercati statali “affrontino la povertà alimentare”
https://www.newstalk.com/news/supermarkets-2278434
di CrayonComrade
People Before Profit vuole che i supermercati statali “affrontino la povertà alimentare”
https://www.newstalk.com/news/supermarkets-2278434
di CrayonComrade
26 commenti
Supermarket prices have gone mental in fairness and I think it’s a good idea, but I think maybe it’s risky to use the phrase “modest proposal” when talking about food poverty
More needs to be done about the problem of poverty in this country both visible and invisible. It seems like the government genuinely does not give a fuck about it. Any suggestion is laughed off as a fantasy as I imagine this will be too.
It’s not just food poverty that needs to be tackled. It’s the fact that we are ripped off completely compared to other nations.
Why is a bottle of water nearly 3 euro??
Same bottle costs 50cent across Europe.
Ordinarily not a bad idea. The only thing I’d say is that we have Lidl and Aldi with quite a sizeable share of our market, already selling quality produce at wafer thin margins.
The discounters don’t have a big presence in NY, where the state owned supermarket scheme has traction under Mayor Mamdani.
If it came to Ireland I fear it’d either:
– not be able to happen in the first place due to strict rules on state aid
– happen, but be a poor alternative to Lidl and Aldi especially in terms of variety and freshness. That small margin the discounters have is the motivation that they need to keep that super 6 going and to keep it fresh. If people will still go to Lidl and Aldi in spite of their being a state supermarket, what’s the point of the state supermarket?
– where will that leave the charities? We spend literal millions on the likes of foodcloud, crosscare and SVP to ensure that the poorest of the poor don’t live in food poverty, something that really doesn’t exist in the likes of the United States. If we opt for a state supermarket and we’re still funding these organisations, what value does the taxpayer get if one side is being double drained and the other is being double funded?
Would this breach EU competition law? State owned supermarkets, subsidies by tax payers, undercutting privately owned supermarkets, seems like a minefield.
It’s incredible how much time PBP spends talking about America or copying ideas from America. They haven’t even bothered to check if this is suited to Ireland, they’re just doing it because Mamdani is.
Supermarkets famously have tiny margins so a state owned supermarket wouldn’t be able to offer prices much lower without massive subsidies. Plus it would be a major expense to set up the supermarkets.
>“We propose to pay for it by implementing a tax on the largest grocery stores and on the fast food chains,” Cllr Reddy said.
So you’ll add a tax that will push up the price of food, in order to pay for a subsidy to lower the price of food? This is the economics of a dog chasing its own tail.
I’m skeptical of this being effective given the fact that supermarket groceries are already a quite competitive market
Aldi Ireland had a profit margin of 0.8% in 2023, where exactly is there room for government to undercut this?
It’s a great idea, and for a specific reason. The state should offer some capacity for basics at low costs to keep the big players honest.
Having places that are genuinely not trying to make a profit highlights the gap between the cost of the product for the seller compared to the price of the product for the consumer.
I’ve been reading Kollontai recently and she was describing how they socialized education in the USSR, it was a big break from the past were workers had to educate their children, nowadays even capitalist countries have socialized education.
As capitalism continues to decay the state is being forced to intervene, and this is a perfect example of it, imagine public restaurants, and collective housekeeping, we could have sm more
We could call it the “Supermarket Service Executive” ?
We’d be better of with a state construction company
I saw this on social media, which I think makes sense given the margins supermarkets operate at:
If a grocery store wants to sell food 30% cheaper, one of only four things *must* be true:
1. Its suppliers are accepting 30% lower prices.
2. Its workers are accepting 30% lower wages.
3. Taxpayers are covering the difference through subsidies.
4. The store is operating at a loss, and will soon be out of business.
Prices aren’t actually 30% lower – they’ve just been shifted somewhere else in the system.
The issue isn’t the supermarkets. Not much has changed in their margins, and the CCPC has looked at this twice now and found them in line with the UK and Europe.
What’s actually moving is energy. Wholesale electricity is up over 40% on the year and fuels are up a quarter, and energy is a big component of farming (way bigger than most people realise), along with transport, refrigeration and processing. That feeds into food costs with a lag.
Ireland is on the edges and at the end of the European supply chains and that causes a major built in premium that comes the location. It’s logistically expensive to get stuff to and it’s a small scale market.
The other issue is we tell ourselves a lot of mythology about self sufficiency from domestic agriculture. The vast majority of what we produce is beef and dairy, and pork etc. If you look at it only in terms of calories produced vs consumption it paints a better picture than the reality. Where we have huge exposure to international markets is basically EVERYTHING else: fruit, veg, grains, and most of our branded goods.
We’re also definitely importing costs because of dependency on UK produced processed and branded foods that are not shifting to EU produced alternatives because of consumer preferences and serious inertia, so we have definitely been importing border and logistical costs since Brexit and they’re being absorbed by the supply chains and are reflecting in prices.
You’re also going to see expensive vegetable and fruit and quite possibly higher grain costs later this year because of bad harvests in France, Spain and much of Western Europe and Canada due to the extreme heat this summer. That’ll feed into grocery inflation this autumn, winter and into 2027. It also feeds into grain that’s used to feed the meat and dairy sector – not just a bag of Spanish lettuce.
The issues that need to be tackled are energy costs and diversification and broadening of the supply chains.
I’m really interested in New York’s program and hope it goes well, but I think the published document outlining the program’s details is a bit lacking in clarity in some places, and I’m curious to see how that shakes out in NY. Mainly, I’m confused by the operator’s role in running these stores. I think this is some teething pains that comes with a new proposal, but I’d much rather see how it bares out than to just copy the plan verbatim without seeing its efficiacy first.
My gripe with the councillers proposal is that I wouldn’t expect them to have answers to these problems because it isn’t their idea, it feels far from a thought-out plan from Reddy.
A HSE run supermarket would bankrupt us.
Mad that there is so much support for this here, what would it actually achieve?
Prices wouldn’t be lower, it would increase our already massive current expenditure and it would make Ireland a less attractive investment environment.
Far easier and better to just have targeted measures for those who are struggling
Probably not going to happen.
Would be helpful to make them highlight when they put prices up. Every price label in store and online has to disclose its cost and package size from 12 months earlier. If they’re going to inflate and shrinkflate they need to own it.
Make the ClubCard Price crap illegal too.
Also ensure their prices are available on a public API so its possible to create a supermarket version of USwitch/Bonkers.ie.
I just did my shop in aldi. If you know how to do basic cooking there is no food poverty. If you cant cook and spend all your money on take aways/ready meals then learn to cook. Its not thay hard. 90% of the stuff I learned was off the like of YouTube.
Admittedly meats in particular beef have massively increased in price but that is due to carbon tax and government policies which wont be reduced via a government supermarket which will have to source from the same suppliers.
They should build houses.
That’s the real problem in Ireland
This totally wouldn’t be a disaster at all
People before profit consistently poll at 2/3% nationally, what they want is irrelevant.
We could go back to when Aldi and Lidl were basically warehouses selling strange European tinned food.
Someone will will fill that void.
You’ve got to credit them, they’ve got one trick and they stick to it
The big players have <1% profit margins. Supermarkets specifically are the one spot where the theoretical economic stuff about competition pans out. The case I see for this is protecting a bit of dignity for people who currently depend on food banks, so they can still feel they’re doing a normal shop like everyone else – which is important.
Unfortunately, to tackle this long term, we need to do the unpopular thing and tackle the underlying issues making things expensive (high electricity prices because of dependency on fossil fuels, traffic congestion increasing cost of deliveries, etc). All things that have solutions that can’t be hammered over the line in 18 months.
I _strongly_ doubt the state could run a grocery store any cheaper than Lidl or Aldi can.
COMMUNISM, forget it. Never happen.