Trump vuole un obiettivo di spesa per la difesa della Nato del 5%, ha detto l’Europa
https://on.ft.com/4iNM6xG
di michaelbachari
Trump vuole un obiettivo di spesa per la difesa della Nato del 5%, ha detto l’Europa
https://on.ft.com/4iNM6xG
di michaelbachari
48 commenti
Good idea. Let’s go for 5%!
Seems a fair target given the security situation.
Yeah 5% makes sense, so we can protect ourselves from the USA – when they go full on crazy.
I support it but only under requirement that we develop european military industry instead of buying from the usa.
ONE BILLION PERCENT.
Does this means that US is increasing military spending to 5% of GDP too?
Europe is in war, and adversary spending its 100% on that war, so 5% is least Europe can do.
Mainly validation that Trump never gave a shit about the 2% before. It is just something to pressure and coerce. If anyone makes 5% it will be 10% next.
It is just a way to extort more money and concessions.
I am for sensible defense spending but that is not what Trump is interested in. He will probably throw a hissy fit again when the money is not spend on US contractors which he did last time. It is about money supposedly going to the US or to him personally.
United States is at 3.4%…
To go 5%, Europe will just need to have the following:
– Health care system, or lack thereof, like the US
– Student loans like the US
– New “peace” taxes
A spending target for European nations to reach 5% and then hold it for a handful of years is fair considering the world we are entering, as nearly all European countries have little to no strategic reserves, aging facilities, poor military infrastructure, low personnel numbers and large sections of lost industry, fixing those issues and rebuilding everything that’s been hollowed out over the last three decades won’t be cheap.
However 5% is far too high as a long term baseline, 2.5% should be the agreed NATO minimum after doing so, the US has spent roughly 3.5% annually over the past two decades and the military has sustained all it’s capabilities and been well resourced, but most countries don’t need the same scale of capabilities, global infrastructure and power projection that a global hegemony does.
I could go for that, if we build up our own military industry and stop buying American weapons.
Going from 1.2% to 1.5% took like a decade of discussions. Belgian politicians are going to have a stroke reading this.
Sure, but give us around 4 years time.
Hahaha. We do not have colonial wars to fight any longer, plus very small military industrial complex. We have health care, we have social security. No can do
5%?
Thats marshall levels, would make sense to build back up
Trump can go fuck himself. With all due respect
Well, why do we need NATO with that expending?
He just wants Europe to spend more money on weapons made in the USA.
It really puzzles me what his long game is.
The US hegemony is being threatened. China’s economy has grown to a threatening size. They are learning to do more than just copy. They have a horde of other countries who are willing to work with them to curtail US dominance by replacing the USD as a reserve currency for a start.
Understandably the US does not want to give up it’s position just like that. I understand when Trump wants to take economic actions against China. I understand the US wants to remove dependencies by producing enough oil, producing their own chips and whatever else.
What i don’t understand is why Trump tries so hard to alienate the US’s allies. We in Europe do want to spend on military. Not however so that we can effectively fight the third world war together with the US, but because we don’t want to depend on the US anymore. The more he threatens with tarrifs and all sort of nonsense, the more we understand that we need to cut US dependencies and stand on our own.
I sure hope we manage to do that, with or without Trumps “encouragement” because when we do, we don’t need to let the US draw is into the third world war. We can try to remain neutral, or if the threats and alienation keeps on going, even side with BRICS.
Does he want to work with his allies to hold on to dominance in the chaos that is to come ? Or does he want the US to stand alone against everyone ?
European Military. I did the math, with an EU military (or EU-related, might have to be a separate treaty), **we would have a ~€500 billion defense budget with only 3% of GDP.** We would be able to keep all our social services instead of gutting them! What European can say no to that? Not all countries need to join, in fact, some are unwanted.
**I will start a European Citizens Initiative soon to get a dialogue going on this topic, as well as a national initiative in my country. A small country, but we push above our weight, and anyone can bring a topic to the EU table.**
This is the only way. **The USA does not want this**, it’s not in their interest and they have openly opposed a European Military multiple times in the past. They don’t want an equal partner in NATO.
US influence is likely why our politicians are silent on this topic, they never criticise the US. **They need some help from us, the citizens, this time!** I pray for millions of legitimate signatures. It would become world news.
🇪🇺❤️
I mean thats a bit too much but if thats the price this clown and Elmo wont bother Europe at all for the next 4 years Ill take it i guess.
He had to choose a number that even we don’t meet so he can still talk his nonsense that the US won’t respect article 5
T*ump doesn‘t define the rules! He is such an annoing POS!
Fair enough… Will be tough but a very conservative target it NATO stands any chance against China which will be the probable flash point country
So I am very curious who is going to buy american weapons then. If he blackmails Europe this way, does he think we are going to buy the weapons from Lockhead Martin, etc. and let this cocksucker shit on our heads? Definitely not. It means no, we will not buy anymore. It means less jobs for his retarded voters. But they can stil sell to let’s say, Uganda 😆
Tremendous percentages, the best percentage, you wouldn’t believe it.
Rheinmetall approves this
Spend 5% on what exactly? American weapon manufacturers?
And I want a pillow shaped like Sydney Sweeneys tits, but we all have to live in the real world…
The US only spends 3.4% of GDP on defence. Expecting everyone else to spend 5% is silly
5% is extremely high, even the US spends less than 4%.
A more realistic target is 2-3% of GDP.
Having said that, NATO has been giving Ukraine about ~50 billion a year in military aid and even that is enough to basically destroy the official Russian military when combined with Ukrainian spending and troops. You don’t need tons and tons of money to destroy the Russian military. I’d wager in between NATO and Ukraine, they’ve probably spent around ~200-250 billion to grind down Russias military in the last 3 years.
Is this a way of subsidising the US military industry?
What about from 3 years from now we aim to spend 3% for 10 years?
I hate trump but he’s right about our military strength
Yes, but >60% of that money in Europe should go into independant European projects.
They will never cough up, they don’t have the money.
Until the last 5 years only the US, UK & Canada met the 2.4 % target.
He is right.
Lets not pretend like the US demanding “more military spending” actually means anything other than buying more from the US.
I do not want a single euro cent from my taxes being given to that country of lunatics and idiots. The extortion will never stop. That equipment needs maintenance, it needs parts. Whose to say they will not threaten to tear up contracts and stop providing support for the sold equipment unless we pony up more.
If we invest money into our own military industrial sector it would not only make Europe more independent but it would also return some of that money back in to the economy as we open up factories and hire more people for manufacturing and R&D.
Lastly most of consumer goods and conveniences like the internet have come about directly as a result of military projects. Putting our best and brightest to work in that sector will only lead to further innovation.
If anyone hasn’t noticed, less than 1% of what ever has come out of Trumps produces any kind of result.
Well More nukes to Europe then .
Then we don’t need the yanks. It’s always been the only thing that could scare the Russians. They never gave two craps about military bases here’ and there
Funny if everybody goes up to 5% but nobody buy new gear from US companies
Sure, no problem
I mean, if all European nations committed to this, and then increased our ability to cooperate militarily – we wouldn’t need the US for any sort of defence.
We likely be the largest, most well equipped military alliance in the world.
Is that what he wants…?
Billions and billions percent
If this has the effect of getting lazy, complacent European politicians off their butts, roll up their sleeves and build adequate military capabilities to deter Putin, then this will be very beneficial. I don’t believe the 5% goal is realistic but any talk about it will make 2% or 3% seem much more reasonable to those who fail to take security seriously.
All right, 5% is quite crazy number. If we get the average to 2% or more, that’s already quite good. If it’s 3%, that’s a lot, and would make europe a very strong military power.
But 5% is quite crazy number. To put it into perspective, EU’s current GDP is around 19.4 trillion eur, and 5% of that is around 970 billion, almost 1 trillion. Not counting non-EU countries like UK and Norway, counting those in would add total close to 1150 billion eur. US’s current spending is around 800 billion eur. So no, that kind of spending is not needed for pure defence at all. Thats “military base in every country in the world” level of spending. And that level of increase is basically impossible without cutting social spending.
So yes, I think that 2% is a quite good goal all things taken into account, or 3% if wanted.
Sure. I think it would be great that every country put 5% of their GDP into their local arms industry, because if a crisis were to happen, supply lines from foreign countries might not be secured. This 5% spending would also stimulate the economy and generate jobs. I think this is a preferable option to constant god damn failures with austerity.
I mean like… Here in Finland we make tanks, guns, ammunition (and our flash cotton doesn’t come from China…), artillery shells, ships. I think what we need is a homegrown missiles, anti-air, and maybe some drones – maybe Sweden and Norway will work with us on this. Considering that we are currently also making the nato-skiis, sharing the icebreaker technology with Nato countries, and other bits (I think some company got some big optics orders just while ago).
yeah… Instead of buying foreign, invest to our own military industry. I love this idea! We could even put up tariffs for weapon imports to make ours more competitive. And we will make the foreign countries pay for it. Don’t you guys think that’s a great idea? Thats how tariffs work, right?
Who tf cares, the US is lost as an ally anyways
And my ass wants toilet paper after listening to this orange juice