In the 18th Century, the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth was one of the most liberal states in Europe, with the continent’s first constitution and the closest thing to electoral democracy prior to the French Revolution.
However, it’s institutions were prone to gridlock, and the surrounding autocratic powers would routinely bribe delegates to the Sejm to keep it from reforming itself. Then, over just 23 years, the 3 surrounding autocracies conspired to divide up the PLC among themselves, and eastern europe was plunged into autocratic domination by Austria, Russia and Prussia (Germany). What was once the largest, most populous state in Europe unique for it’s tolerance and diversity was snuffed out.
We in the present day should learn from the past. The EU is not yet lost, but it must be reformed so that it can defend itself against Russia, China and be able to negotiate with a fickle USA on equal terms.
The EU should end the modern Liberum Veto (Unanimous voting in the EU commission), empower the Sejm (EU Parliament) to have real decision making power on continent wide issues, form a strong unified army, and form a single unified identity while maintaining and celebrating the cultural diversity and ancient traditions of our continent.
Initial_Hedgehog_631 on
The take away from this is if Russians and Germans start making deals, it’s the people in between who get screwed.
_CatLover_ on
Crumble after years of corrupt political leadership? Yeah i could see that happen.
lambinevendlus on
False analogy.
The PLC was **one sovereign state** while the EU is an international organization composing of **sovereign member states** none of whom have unanimous voting.
It would be a strategic disaster for smaller peripheral countries to give away their veto rights in sensitive areas. It would mean the denser EU core would get to make all decisions based on majority vote and the EU core is usually completely oblivious to the problems of the smaller peripheral member states.
TsL1 on
Nah, bud, just elect crazy ass far rights that would gladly sell off your national security for cheap gas and everything will be a o k…./s
TheDungen on
There are lessons there. The PLC fel apart because it requires unanimous votes on everything. A Polish parliament its called in many languages. The EU needs to get rid if the last things that require unanimous votes. It worked when the EU had 4 members not when it has 27. There is already a final sanction if ia single country can’t agree with the decisions of the EU, they can always leave the union.
Breifne21 on
I will be downvoted for it but I personally think Europe should accept what it is rather than chasing something it’s not going to be.
European Federalism is a fringe idea, at least based on election results. It’s less popular than obvious Nazism. Even were it popular overall, that’s not good enough. It’s needs to be the majority position throughout Europe, in every country. To get the stars to align like that is just not going to happen. And that’s not mentioning the serious question if politicians in every EU country would be willing to cede power and sovereignty over absolutely key sectors such as foreign affairs and defence to Brussels, even if that was the current majority opinion in that country. Power is not easy to hand away permanently. And then there’s the question as to how stable any such union would be. Currently, the only part of the EU where the majority of people identified with Europe was the city of Budapest. The overwhelming majority of the EU’s population (73%) listed their national identity as their most important identity as per Eurobarometer. Taken everything as it is, that’s not translating into a Federal Union any time soon, or in the medium term.
Europe can do defence together as a simple Defensive Pact, a NATO for Europe, if you will, without the need to try in vain to get 27 countries to give up their individual foreign policies.
That can be applied to a myriad of things which Europe needs to do together, without needing to resort to a federation which isn’t coming in my lifetime, and I frankly doubt can ever come.
What Europe doesnt do well, let’s improve. What Europe can compete in, let’s go for it, but Europe simply isn’t going to be a major superpower economically, militarily or diplomatically. We are an aging, declining, continent. We aren’t going to compete with the USA or China as the top dog. That’s simply reality.
nothingpersonnelmate on
No it doesn’t.
Virtual-Weather-7041 on
Russians bribing Polish nobles who had the “golden privilege” to veto decisions, did a lot to make this happen, remind you of anything ?
9 commenti
In the 18th Century, the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth was one of the most liberal states in Europe, with the continent’s first constitution and the closest thing to electoral democracy prior to the French Revolution.
However, it’s institutions were prone to gridlock, and the surrounding autocratic powers would routinely bribe delegates to the Sejm to keep it from reforming itself. Then, over just 23 years, the 3 surrounding autocracies conspired to divide up the PLC among themselves, and eastern europe was plunged into autocratic domination by Austria, Russia and Prussia (Germany). What was once the largest, most populous state in Europe unique for it’s tolerance and diversity was snuffed out.
We in the present day should learn from the past. The EU is not yet lost, but it must be reformed so that it can defend itself against Russia, China and be able to negotiate with a fickle USA on equal terms.
The EU should end the modern Liberum Veto (Unanimous voting in the EU commission), empower the Sejm (EU Parliament) to have real decision making power on continent wide issues, form a strong unified army, and form a single unified identity while maintaining and celebrating the cultural diversity and ancient traditions of our continent.
The take away from this is if Russians and Germans start making deals, it’s the people in between who get screwed.
Crumble after years of corrupt political leadership? Yeah i could see that happen.
False analogy.
The PLC was **one sovereign state** while the EU is an international organization composing of **sovereign member states** none of whom have unanimous voting.
It would be a strategic disaster for smaller peripheral countries to give away their veto rights in sensitive areas. It would mean the denser EU core would get to make all decisions based on majority vote and the EU core is usually completely oblivious to the problems of the smaller peripheral member states.
Nah, bud, just elect crazy ass far rights that would gladly sell off your national security for cheap gas and everything will be a o k…./s
There are lessons there. The PLC fel apart because it requires unanimous votes on everything. A Polish parliament its called in many languages. The EU needs to get rid if the last things that require unanimous votes. It worked when the EU had 4 members not when it has 27. There is already a final sanction if ia single country can’t agree with the decisions of the EU, they can always leave the union.
I will be downvoted for it but I personally think Europe should accept what it is rather than chasing something it’s not going to be.
European Federalism is a fringe idea, at least based on election results. It’s less popular than obvious Nazism. Even were it popular overall, that’s not good enough. It’s needs to be the majority position throughout Europe, in every country. To get the stars to align like that is just not going to happen. And that’s not mentioning the serious question if politicians in every EU country would be willing to cede power and sovereignty over absolutely key sectors such as foreign affairs and defence to Brussels, even if that was the current majority opinion in that country. Power is not easy to hand away permanently. And then there’s the question as to how stable any such union would be. Currently, the only part of the EU where the majority of people identified with Europe was the city of Budapest. The overwhelming majority of the EU’s population (73%) listed their national identity as their most important identity as per Eurobarometer. Taken everything as it is, that’s not translating into a Federal Union any time soon, or in the medium term.
Europe can do defence together as a simple Defensive Pact, a NATO for Europe, if you will, without the need to try in vain to get 27 countries to give up their individual foreign policies.
That can be applied to a myriad of things which Europe needs to do together, without needing to resort to a federation which isn’t coming in my lifetime, and I frankly doubt can ever come.
What Europe doesnt do well, let’s improve. What Europe can compete in, let’s go for it, but Europe simply isn’t going to be a major superpower economically, militarily or diplomatically. We are an aging, declining, continent. We aren’t going to compete with the USA or China as the top dog. That’s simply reality.
No it doesn’t.
Russians bribing Polish nobles who had the “golden privilege” to veto decisions, did a lot to make this happen, remind you of anything ?