Mentre gli Stati Uniti si ritirano, l’Europa deve cercarsi da sola, così anche la risposta nucleare di Macron?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/feb/17/europe-france-uk-nuclear-shield-emmanuel-macron
di Fun-Ad-6948
Mentre gli Stati Uniti si ritirano, l’Europa deve cercarsi da sola, così anche la risposta nucleare di Macron?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/feb/17/europe-france-uk-nuclear-shield-emmanuel-macron
di Fun-Ad-6948
35 commenti
Yes
Obviously Europe can’t keep relying on American nuclear weapons, just like it can’t rely on imported energy (which ironically is often more expensive). But that requires strong leadership, which Europe has been lacking for decades.
Yes, for those who spend 2.5% of gdp on their military (no ifs, ands, or buts)
It is about 40 years too late
It would have been vastly simpler had Europe, either as individual communities, or as a whole, had stopped the genocides in Bosnia – Herzegovina
Yes.
Ukraine needs a lease as a first step on 24 nukes until they develop their own. That, just so that threat by Russia is eliminated.
At the very least, the UK needs to spend an awful lot of money on developing a trident replacement in-country. It’ll be expensive as fuck, but it will be worth it.
We cannot place our reliance on such an unreliable foreign nation for something so important. Special relationship? More like an abusive one.
I hope us Swedes resume our nuclear program. Better to have some yourselves than rely on France or anyone else!
Sweden go for it!
what can Macron nuclear shield do against Le Pen? all EU countries should acquire nukes jf we want peace
>The view from Germany, a necessary partner in any such project, is mixed. The chancellor, Olaf Scholz, and anti-nuclear parties such as the Greens strongly dislike the idea (as do French leftwing and far-right parties).
I bet that view from Poland would be basically ‘fuck yeah’. Well, at least until US ambassador frowns with disapproval.
Yes, but also… No.
We, as Europe, really need a strong basement, starting with strong and focused politicians. A group of real leaders, like Macron, Tusk and Kallas. They need to create a “we”-feeling covering the whole Union. We are Europe, we are strong and we won’t take every shitload, whether from east nor west.
The message has to be “don’t fuck Europe”.
Because if not, we’re fucked.
Yes, as well as EU financing for the expansion of the French nuclear arsenal, ideally into a true nuclear triad with launch sites in several EU countries. (ideally in remote areas like Greenland, far northern Scandinavia, the emptier parts of France or Spain etc.)
I quite like the nuclear non-proliferation treaty, so i’d prefer not to give Germany or Poland nukes of their own, and I don’t think there should be nukes under joint EU command, due to a requirement for responsiveness, as well as the issue of bad faith actors like Hungary.
I long for a world in which nuclear weapons are a hideous relic of the past. I do not believe we get to that place through unilateral (effective) disarmament. We get there by ensuring: a) Europe and democratic values survive; b) being strong enough to effectively eliminate any threats; and c) holding our moral multi-lateral courage and not being afraid to evangelize this charitably throughout the world.
We need (nuclear) weapons to secure all these things. I wish we didn’t, what right thinking person wouldn’t. But we do. And to preserve our chance at that better future, I believe we must secure our survival by ensuring a nuclear shield.
Would be, but exclusion of Finland, Sweden and Romania suggests he’s just looking for suckers to organize him a buffer zone.
He haven’t shown balls to lead anyone in this mess. He’s looking for exit for himself.
yes…..WTF is there to think about, too much time wasted pondering instead of actually acting.
Part of it, and The UK should be along for the ride. Entente Cordiale in lock step.
France should double its nuclear arsenal and ask the other European Members to fund that expansion in exchange for a replacement of the US nuclear weapons sharing. We need French nukes paid by European money and operated by French forces all over the eastern block.
It’s time for Britain and the EU to forget about America until Trump and the Muskrat are out of the picture. We simply can’t trust America at this moment in time. Wake up and smell the roses. Britain needs the EU, and the EU needs Britain time to kiss and make up.
France has ASMP air launched nuclear cruise missiles. While they do not count as vectors for “true” nuclear deterrence (that would be the strategic submarine-launched ICBMs), it would certainly be a powerful message to have France immediately gives/sells a few of these to a handful of other European air forces – probably Spain, Italy, Germany and Sweden.
Yes: and put nuclear weapons in Poland and Finland. If Russia puts them in Belarus, we can play that game too.
**CRUCIALLY: SEIZE AND SPEND THE $300 BILLION IN FROZEN RUSSIAN ASSETS**, instead of merely using the profits from them. That money needs to go to the Ukrainian war effort, reconstruction, and arms production.
[https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/case-for-seizing-russian-assets-reserves-for-ukraine-by-timothy-ash-2024-06](https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/case-for-seizing-russian-assets-reserves-for-ukraine-by-timothy-ash-2024-06)
It makes perfect strategic sense. No single country in Europe can ever hope to match the military capabilities of the US, but by each country contributing a basic set of capabilities in ground and air warfare, and then focusing on a specific sub specialty, the continent gains an overall defensive shield to rival the US and far outstrip Russia. UK and France operate SLBMs and nuclear capable stealth cruise missiles which have been shown to be absolutely lethal against Russian forces. Let them spend extra on a nuclear umbrella, and it allows nations like the Nordics to focus on artillery, naval, and air dominance in the north, Poland as a mechanized hammer up the center with their land army, Italy Spain and Greece as a Mediterranean force, Romania is focusing on building massive infrastructure for air forces, and the baltics on cyber warfare with their advanced digital capabilities.
Short range micro hydrogen weapons stationed in silos in Svalbard
3000
Silos about 1000 meters subsurface and hardened with melted rock
Calling all geothermal drilling engineers
Yes!
Currently outside of the conversation as a neutral.
Two nuclear shields in Europe independent of each other and combined under treaties, NATO and Force de Frappe would work as an enhanced deterrent. It will be politically troubling for current US relations, but US government you reap what you sow.
I hope they go for it.
I grew up being told how neutrality defended Irish independence in WW2. Barely. Now this pacifist wants a referendum on neutrality. I’m too old for current military service rules and as much as it sounds annoying, I’m willing to train at my own cost if needs be to be a military support personnel, free up the specialists to focus on what’s important and….. to support an older Home Guard…. fuck I laughed at Dad’s Army now I’m wanting to join one.
There’s a lot of pacifists like me out there.
In case you’re wondering how nuclear deterrence or MAD (mutual assault destruction) is standing at these days:
Democratic World: 671 nuclear warheads
Regimes: 12,462 nuclear warheads
source: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/nuclear-weapons-by-country
Nuclear Blackmailing incoming in 3….2…1….
It may not be the answer, but it is a good question, and the answer is yes – especially if the rules-based order crumbles or is severely damaged.
Germany, Italy, France, Norway, Sweden, Finland, UK imho should find a way to come to some agreement. They are all established military weapon/defense producing specialists but they all make their “own” variants of things.
If they can work together and decide who specialises in what, and create European standards for all military there might actually be some hope for EU
Yes, an increase of nuclear arsenal is the immediate answer. There are multiple countries in EU who can participate as industry and even have some expertise, beside the obvious France who in this case will provide its expertise and plans for building both the strategic and tactical nukes and their delivering systems.
Gee, Romania had a secret program in communist era and tested all the production chain for creating a nuke by 1990 or so, iirc.
France should double at least its SLBM arsenal with four new ballistic submarines, reaching eight, or even ten, and some as Itally and Spain can take the use of couple each. If UK join again EU, at least as a defense partner, thats another four nuclear subs with ballistic missiles. Make them to be up to 1000 strategic warheads of MIRV type and whatever number of intercontinental missiles needed. That will be the strategic deterrent against anyone and will be based in Atlantic, Med Sea,whatever ocean in the world
Then make some more advanced cruise missiles with more tactical nuclear warheads (even if even these modern tactical nukes are ten times more powerful than those launched at Hiroshima or Nagasaki) and base them on the eastern flank, like 300 split equally between Poland, Romania and Sweden or Finland, all of them able to reach Moscow and beyond, up to Urals. Thats where is 80% of Russian population anyway.
These will be the first line of strategic deterrence against Russia. The doctrine should also allow autonomous use by each country and to be put in line and use at any sign of aggression against EU territory and vital interests
EU should cover the cost for all these, I believe is quite doable, while every country with nuclear and aerospace industries should join forces to build this arsenal in as short as possible amount of time.
China race hard to reach at least 1000 strategic nukes, and US and Russia have well over that. If EU wants to survive and thrive, it needs to reach parity as MAD, and after that look for better supplied, trained and equipped conventional forces. I still hope US leadership will come to its senses, and things will change in US with the new elections they will have in couple years, they are still a strategic partner and I hope they will survive this weirdo administration until at least then.
But is obviously not normal to be at the whim of looney toons as Trump, Musk or demented ones like Putin, EU needs to grow up and remember who made history in the world in the last milleniums
Can Germany please be allowed to have nukes again? We promise we won’t use them against our allies.
US isn’t retreating so much as repositioning for a war with Iran.
They are selling Ukranian land to buy the Russians off.for this pivot.
US will advance its interests, they are just cutting out alot of the middle men.
Fuck macron, but yes !
Love them or hate them, France has been a strong (maybe even the strongest) supporter of the EU since the invasion of Ukraine and Trumps anti-European stance began.
Can baltics get a hydrogen bomb or two too please?
If the events of the last few days don’t PERMANENTLY alter US-EU relations, it means that Europe has learned nothing.
We need to accept the fact that we are alone, our only allies are in Europe, and any weakness will be taken advantage of by others.
Looks like Putin’s long game of destabilising/deunifying Europe has backfired. Hopefully.