L’Europa si è unito al trattato di non proliferazione nucleare e ha accettato di mantenere il suo arsenale piccolo sul presupposto che gli Stati Uniti sarebbero stati il suo alleato. È tempo di ritirarsi ed espandersi.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_the_Non-Proliferation_of_Nuclear_Weapons
di Evermoving-
46 commenti
Long overdue, we could see this coming since election day
If other countries don’t feel the need to abide by treaties, why would Europe?
All the rules to control us, to make sure we’re not dangerous like them
The best time was yesterday, the second best is today.
Better invest in a shitload of drones and artillery.
The US profits from a weak Europe, always has. Time to grow some fangs and rearm.
This is the most obvious move.
I think the Budapest Memorandum showed that it makes no sense to trust the USA. Ukraine/Kazakhstan regret letting go of Nukes, and Belarus got its back thanks to the Putler.
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Yes. Europe needs European nukes desperately.
I feel like this is one of those decisions that will come to bite us in the us in decades to come.
Macron said it four years ago. It’s late, but not too late.
I hate it but I agree, that seems like the only deterrent for Russian aggression
I dont think so. Its bad signal to do that and you don’t need 5000 warheads to achieve the intended goal. Just a few is enough. Uk and France have about 500 together, that is plenty. Any more is just big dick contest.
We need to build an army asap yes, so that we can’t be invaded or extorted etc. And we even need the nukes we have for similar reasons and agree with france and UK to spread them across europe and to give ETO decision power in using them. But at the same time we need to be the wisest in the room and use good diplomacy to reach a lasting peace in Ukraine and then to prevent a war between Russia and Europe from ever happening.
It’s time to rebuild our defence industry and stockpile weaponry across the Continent.
We are now on our own.
Europe needs to have contemporaneus MAD against both the US and Russia as there is a clear risk of them being allied in the future. I would not count those from the UK as I don’t trust them: they could easily act as US fifth column, irrespective of their government.
Which means at least 1k ICMBs and 20-30 nuclear submarines.
We and our governments relied on the hope that the US had at least some decent people in it’s government. And on the belief that agreements and alliances actually meant something to them.
What we have gotten is a very harsh wake up call, but it’s not too late, yet. We have time to regroup, and build new roads, before the old ones have crumbled to dust, so we are not stranded.
We, as regular people, have to be proactive, too. We have to make our voices heard by our governments, and show to elections like never before – because we have a decrepit, bleak example of that can happen if we become complacent.
No it isn’t
Who should get nukes? AFAIK, we have the following subdivisions of Europe without:
* Baltics (Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia)
* Balkans (e.g. Serbia, Croatia, Romania)
* Eastern Europe (Balkans + Baltics, Ukraine)
* Central Europe (e.g. Germany, Poland, Switzerland, Czechia)
* Southern Europe (e.g. Spain, Italy, Turkey)
* Northern Europe/Scandinavia (e.g. Sweden, Denmark, Finland, sometimes Germany)
* Benelux (e.g. Belgiun, Netherlands)
Non-european Team Good (off the top of my head):
* Canada
* Japan
* South Korea
* Taiwan
* Oceania
* Mexico?
Cough cough Ukraine. Cough cough third nuclear arsenal in the world. Cough cough exchanging it for “gentlemen promises” of 3 nuclear states, 2 of which already betrayed Ukraine.
Of course you need nukes. Every sane country would develop nukes given the alternative on the EU border.
Well we now have two giant nuclear powers threatening us from two different fronts, the US by threat of annexing Canada, a NATO country, and Denmark, a EU and NATO country, in the west, and russia who is already attacking an European country and won’t stop until their back is severely broken or they manages to restore the Soviet union, which would involve attacking multiple NATO and EU countries. NATO excluding the US is de facto no longer under the US nuclear umbrella. So the logical step to take, to keep the democratic dream alive, is to implement a European nuclear umbrella, probably lead and controlled by a joint venture between UK, France (Both nuclear nation) and the EU (or a coalition of non-Nuclear european countries, that want to be under the protection of a joint nuclear program [of course contributing financially for development, upkeep and maintenance] ).
So Europe starts doing this, having to move around budget from social programs to military investment. What stops the traitor political parties like vox or the afd that side with Trump to use that as a talking point to earn votes and pull more brexits across member states with the full support of the American propaganda machine?
Under the circumstances, Europe will need to take a new look at some treaties it signed under erroneous assumptions of protection or endless peace
And time for Canada to follow suit with its European allies.
Ukraine gave up the nuclear weapons inside of it‘s territory, in exchange for Russia recognizing the borders. Seems like such promises don’t age well.
Italy… we need our own nukes, not the american ones that we cannot use without american authorization and are a giant target in case of nuclear war. And Germany, and Spain, and Croatia/Slovenia. Every coutry with nuclear reactors in Europe should have them, and every country economically capable of developing them.
The US also vowed to support Ukraine when the nuclear disarmament deal went through and here we are.
US cannot be trusted. They are too volatile with the leaders they choose and don’t uphold the deals they sign.
We definitely should exit the NPT. Nonproliferation is dead. It died with the invasion of Ukraine and American treachery. Now, we need our own strategic nuclear weapons to defend against these adversaries.
German nukes? Japanese Nukes?
The map is not showing Israel, who has them as well (even if some still try to debate that)
This is so depressing.
It was so hard to get out of the nuclear arms race. I hate that we are being forced back in.
Maybe some public underground Fallout shelters wouldn’t hurt either. And my some I mean like thousands
Caution: Europe does need nuclear weapons to guarantee its security, but nobody wants a world where nukes are as accessible as over-the-counter medication. Treaties, multilateralism, and diplomacy are still important.
The purpose of a nuclear arsenal is deterrence, not using or threatening to use nukes at the first sign of conflict. That’s Putin’s approach, not Europe’s.
Ideally, a limited nuclear triad under the control of the EU as a whole would be the most effective deterrent—serving as a shield for all of Europe, as well as other potential members such as Canada, and reinforcing a broader democratic bloc around the world.
Smaller, national nuclear arsenals can easily be turned against the Union. Imagine Orbán with nukes, or Farage and Le Pen in control of the arsenals.
Instead, Europe should build a unified European Army with its own nuclear triad, funded by the Union. But that would require European federalism, and too many of our politicians still think in terms of nation-states rather than a collective future.
Yet the writing is on the wall: Unite and grow stronger, or risk subjugation.
Canada can help with this. We have plenty of uranium.
This sub gets more and more special every single day, lol.
Idk how more nuclear heads are better in the world….
We must eliminate all nuclear weapons from every country in the world… not make more…
People are stupid.
How big does a nuclear arsenal need to be? How many cities have to be wiped out before the war is over?
Oh by the way – check the 2 plus 4 treaty. Whatever German shouts in here for any nuclear stuff, should start by remembering what we are not allowed to.
Even more ironic is the case of Taiwan, US forced them to abandon their nuclear program. If they went ahead they would be safe now. Instead US is trying now to extort money from them for protection.
💯 Trump is not to be trusted
No nukes mean no wars of prevention over resources, borders, or the egos of dictators.
Nukes mean either peace through deterrence or total annihilation.
Honestly, Russia never seems to learn to mind its own business and improve its own country instead of meddling with the world. So in the end, nukes might be the only answer.
It might be more useful to remind large chunks of the planet about the importance of territorial integrity in preventing the spread of weapons of mass destruction, and Russia’s continued role in undermining that.
Charles de Gaulle was right in not trusting the Americans
Why would the Europeans ever made that assumption? Even if there was some sort of signed agreement or treaty, those are just words on a piece of paper. Given America’s history of ignoring signed agreements when it suits them, why would Europeans trust the United States? Are they morons?
India is a good counter example. India has good relations with America, but India continues to maintain good relations with Russia as well. India also developed its own nuclear deterrence. India buys weapons from Europe, America, and Russia, in addition to develop its own weapons.
Why does India not side with any one country? Because Indians are smart enough to know that the Americans cannot be trusted, just like the Russians cannot be trusted.
goes without question – France cannot be the only country with a nuclear arsenal in the union.
We need the capability to strike any target in the world that includes current allies.
Yeah full on salted nukes cobalt 60 bring the pain.