La politica estera di SOC DEMS non è seria – ecco perché ho lasciato il partito | Di Dave McGinn | Mar, 2025 | Medio
https://medium.com/@davemcginn/soc-dems-foreign-policy-is-unserious-84a62ce5584d
di extremessd
La politica estera di SOC DEMS non è seria – ecco perché ho lasciato il partito | Di Dave McGinn | Mar, 2025 | Medio
https://medium.com/@davemcginn/soc-dems-foreign-policy-is-unserious-84a62ce5584d
di extremessd
19 commenti
I broadly agree with him, but this all seems very self-indulgent by the author.
I’ve said before, that I vote for FF and FG not because I like them but because I think they’re the best of a bad bunch. This article outlines a major concern I have with SD along with some other issues.
I would love a party that I could really get behind. I totally realise not all a party’s positions will keep everyone happy but I’d love a party with that I felt I could actually engage with and feel like they have a principle that I agree with.
A former candidate in local elections, as far as I can tell never elected for anything.
But foreign policy is his biggest concern and worth resigning over… Give me a break
Do you have to 100% agree with every policy of a party to support or join them? Purity tests fracture and kill the left. In the real world, the Soc Dems will never determine National foreign policy.
Another progressive party I had hopes for is now unintentionally falling for campism and Russian appeasement.
What these tankie pricks don’t realise is that a weak EU leads to a stronger Russia, a far-right dictatorship that wants to wipe out several nations on its borders.
>suggesting that European leaders actually want a war with Russia
If they want to follow up on their barking, they need to get on biting – Russia is not returning any of the ground that they’ve taken in a negotiation. If these European leaders are not ready to strike at Russia, what’s the difference between them and the neutrality of the SocDems that angers the author so?
SocDems member here. I agree with a lot of what Dave says, but I’m not yet leaving the party. No political party is ever going to align 100% with any particular individual’s positions. An 80% match on substantive issues is about as much as I’d expect to achieve. So we’ll see.
As a member who lives abroad I don’t get to attend branch meetings so can’t express an opinion, but I’d be curious as to how much of the membership backs the fight to retain the triple lock. I’d suspect we’d have a lot of support for neutrality but a recognition too that the UN element means we effectively hand authority over our decisions to deploy to the US, the UK, and the Russians.
I’d hope that leadership is just behind the times – the geopolitical landscape has changed enormously in the last two months and it takes democratic organisations time to catch up with new realities.
We shall see.
He’s either been spoken into his ear by a FG or FF cumann or is a gombeen. Either way nice hit piece by him.
Party better off rid of him if he’s going to be so absolutist. No party will ever perfectly align with your opinions on everything.
This reads like a thesaurus was sick all over the first draft and the author called it quits.
If SocDems having no position on what would have been an awfully unpopular opinion 4 years ago changes your mind then you probably never aligned all that much with the party to begin with. They feel alleviating poverty will achieve more than building an army, I might be more ‘European’ than I was a few years ago but I’m still more behind the SocDem sentiments. Most of the Russian disinformation campaigns most vocal success can be found in working class Europe.
Absolutely spot on.
War isn’t a game where you can just declare ‘I’m neutral’ and an aggressor has to leave you alone. The HSE hack shows we are already being targeted.
We need to work with like-minded peoples to deter the aggressor, who will use a pause in fighting to rearm and continue and utilise their on-the-ground experience fighting a war in Europe.
This is seriously cringe. Basically the author is saying that a party of the centre left, in opposition in a neutral country is insufficiently war mongering for his liking.
If Govt were being even moderately effective on the big issues (housing and health primarily) then that would create space for opposition parties to engage in Ukraine.
As it is, from the Irish perspective, Gaza is a much more important foreign conflict because many EU nations are already actively engaged with the Ukrainian conflict. But very few countries are active in opposing the genocide in Gaza.
We should play our part in Ukraine ofc but that part should not be to enable this failing government to engage in jingoistic photo ops beside their new fighter jets to try and cover up for their crap management of the country for (what will be) almost 20 years.
The author is no loss to the Social Democrats – his position is that the Social Democrats should just join the general war-escalating-‘consensus’ being forced on all other parties/politicians – and that he puts that above all of the more important matters in _domestic_ policy etc., to the point that he speaks out and tries to draw a mob against the Social Democrats, means he can fuck off and hopefully the door cracks his head on the way out.
The Social Democrats – if their policy _is_ to stay relatively muted on Ukraine – is an unprincipled but tbh understandable policy, because why should they draw the NATO-war-mob onto them, for nothing?
Silence is the only way to maintain an anti-war position, while retaining any kind of popular support, until the red-baiting propagandists are removed from Ireland – preferably by outlawing the foreign NGO’s and arms lobby groups that are funding those narratives.
I agree with a lot of his posts. I can’t get my head around it, but all the major left parties seems to have some big Bermuda triangle like issue when it comes to their position on Russia and being extremely vocal against Russia. It makes repeatedly supporting them more and more difficult.
Unbelievable. _Again_ there are multiple posters arguing that NATO and Russia can have a _Conventional War_ on NATO territory – without that turning into a Nuclear War!
That’s the kind of human-race-ending dangerous Jingoism we’re dealing with here – this is something that practically every human being on the planet knew meant _Nuclear War_, only a generation or two ago.
People need to start pushing back against the warmongers, and forcibly point out to them that any direct NATO vs Russia fighting means _Nuclear War_ – and don’t let them fucking wriggle out of it.
Good. Fair play to you. No Irish politician should get a free pass when asked about European security and our role in the future of Europe. Bleating about WWII neutrality, or a conflict we have zero leverage in – like Palestine, isn’t a security policy and it isn’t leadership. It’s a hiding place.
Most of the dissenting comments here are solely about vibes/aesthetics or the end-goal personal tactics of leaving a political party (or even that dissenting like this publicly means he’s bad!), and it’s a sign that he’s largely right on the issue here.
The SDs would fall into a pool of parties I would usually vote for, and whenever I hear interviews about their foreign policy, their representatives are vague and misleading about what they think should happen, and what policy detail you can drag out of them is idealistic to the point of being naive. I’d even respect them more if they came out and said they endorsed no extra military spending or engagement with other countries on defence, at least that’s honest and intellectually coherent compared to the contorted positions they have now.
I wish we had a left wing political party which offered a genuine alternative. The Greens in Germany supporting nuclear power, or the parties in Denmark taking on the immigration challenge, are good examples of parties which are both left-wing but have also graduated beyond student political slogans.
European security is the #1 issue in Europe now, and we should be supporting our allies – they are worried and facing a very real physical threat. Now is not the time to be talking about neutrality or how terrible “warmongering” is.
I get what he’s saying but the point of opposition politics is to challenge the government and represent the minority. All the points made by the Social Democrats in this article are valid, I don’t agree them fully, but they’re still valid points that should be considered when developing policies and making decisions. The US and Russia present an potential existential crisis to Europe and we can’t wait until all of social issues are resolved to address it. The FF/FG governments have also been incredibly soft and hypocritical when it comes to Israel and Gaza and they should be called out on it. It’s not the opposition’s job to toe the line and support the government in everything that they do, but they’re not stupid, they know that difficult decisions have to be made by the government. This is a silly reason to cut ties with an opposition party.
If these mfs want to join NATO do badly they can enlist in the US military or join the Ukrainian Foreign Legion. There’s nothing stopping you lads!