Just gotta loooooove how this shit is happening fucking everywhere. Surely it can’t be a coincidence that this is popping up around the same time as ProtectEU, as well as Chat Control not being permamurdered?
Rectonic92 on
Jaja Bankgeheimnis leckt meine Eier.
blogabegonija on
Swiss must be voted for this?
Great-Refuse1105 on
Good
TheLoaf4 on
How can it be worse than the US, they are litteraly surveilling everything that goes on the internet bit by bit.
djsoomo on
Switzerland is a major provider and location of VPNs internationally,
Would have a devastating effect on that business, and on the Swiss reputation for trust and secrecy with clients, that goes back a long time in the banking sector.
It is the Swiss government, not the parliment, that is pushing for this, apparently foolish, action.
an-imperfect-boot on
I heard that Switzerland was one of the best countries for online privacy, wasn’t Protonmail based there? What will happen now?
thebluepotato7 on
The article is misleading and outdated. It’s a revision of a so-called ordinance, that the government has to get feedback on (process called consultation or Vernehmlassung) but doesn’t have to pass through parliament.
The government now has to review all of them and compile the results and then decide if the want to go further with this, make changes or drop it completely. It would be highly surprising if it went through nonetheless, with likely intervention by the parliament. But yes, disappointing that it was proposed in the first place.
EDIT: for extra context, quite a few cantons approve the changes in principle because they believe the currently available tools to be outdated. The ability to decrypt end-to-end encrypted communications and other measures are only part of the changes proposed. Some cantons do explicitly point out that these provisions are an issue (VD, GE for instance).
Upset_Following9017 on
Nothing new here to see. Two highlights from the past that for some reason seem widely unknown outside that country:
– [Fichenaffäre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_files_scandal). Mass surveillance of the Swiss population by the government for almost a century between 1900 and 1990. There were literally 2.5 million paper-based files on citizens that were meticulously kept; and the whole operation was kept secret until it blew up. Over the decades the database served several aims, from screening out “communists” to being a paid service to companies to screen job applicants.
– [Crypto AG,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG) a Swiss company that sold encyption machines to governments. Unknown to the public, the company was co-owned by by the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and West German Federal Intelligence Service (BND) between the 1970s and 1990s; and they had a master key that allowed them to listen in on their clients’ communications.
ParticularFix2104 on
Racism is mostly bad
WolfOne on
Can someone explain to me why the sudden autoritarian push in places formerly known for personal freedoms?
MajorNo6860 on
Stop pretending as if the change is set in stone! NOTHING is happening overnight.
There is so much misinformation thrown around here on reddit.
Here is what currently is happening:
1. The adjustment order for the “VÜPF” and “VD-ÜPF” (monitoring of postal and telecommunications traffic) everyone is talking about at the moment is basically a draft. It is shitty, but it is a DRAFT.
2. Until a few weeks ago, interested people and organisations have been able to voice their inputs and concerns to the responsible state department. The department now needs to analyse this and consider these concerns, voiced by organisations like e.g. Proton / Threema.
3. Then the updated draft will be considered for implementation. While they can start with the implementation without going through congress, this implementation will need approx. 2 years of time to actually be implemented.
4. **Here comes the big “However”:** When the implementation process starts and there are still big concerns, we as the Swiss population have the option via “Volksinitiative” (people’s initiative) to stop this law adjusment via a national vote. Threema already announced that they would spearhead this initiative. It needs 100k signatures to get an initiative to become a national vote. For something important like this it is usually rather simple to collect 100k signatures.
5. There will be a national vote. **As per current standing all political parties from left through right are against this adjustment**. It has very little chance of success to be actually implemented once it gets to the vote.
I hope this clarifies some of the concerns, I think it is always important to have the full picture instead of immediately panicking.
BobbyKonker on
When leaders start to fear the people.
PrimaryInjurious on
Why is the US the metric here? Plenty of other countries are worse on this.
Lord_Kiro on
But you don’t understand, they’re doing this to protect you 😇 /s
15 commenti
Just gotta loooooove how this shit is happening fucking everywhere. Surely it can’t be a coincidence that this is popping up around the same time as ProtectEU, as well as Chat Control not being permamurdered?
Jaja Bankgeheimnis leckt meine Eier.
Swiss must be voted for this?
Good
How can it be worse than the US, they are litteraly surveilling everything that goes on the internet bit by bit.
Switzerland is a major provider and location of VPNs internationally,
Would have a devastating effect on that business, and on the Swiss reputation for trust and secrecy with clients, that goes back a long time in the banking sector.
It is the Swiss government, not the parliment, that is pushing for this, apparently foolish, action.
I heard that Switzerland was one of the best countries for online privacy, wasn’t Protonmail based there? What will happen now?
The article is misleading and outdated. It’s a revision of a so-called ordinance, that the government has to get feedback on (process called consultation or Vernehmlassung) but doesn’t have to pass through parliament.
That process ended mid May and was widely reported on. Rarely has a proposed changes been so universally rejected by all stakeholders involved (most if not all parties, cantons, associations, etc.). You can read through the 830 pages of reactions here: https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/filestore/fedlex.data.admin.ch/eli/dl/proj/2022/21/cons_1/doc_8/fr/pdf-a/fedlex-data-admin-ch-eli-dl-proj-2022-21-cons_1-doc_8-fr-pdf-a.pdf.
The government now has to review all of them and compile the results and then decide if the want to go further with this, make changes or drop it completely. It would be highly surprising if it went through nonetheless, with likely intervention by the parliament. But yes, disappointing that it was proposed in the first place.
EDIT: for extra context, quite a few cantons approve the changes in principle because they believe the currently available tools to be outdated. The ability to decrypt end-to-end encrypted communications and other measures are only part of the changes proposed. Some cantons do explicitly point out that these provisions are an issue (VD, GE for instance).
Nothing new here to see. Two highlights from the past that for some reason seem widely unknown outside that country:
– [Fichenaffäre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_files_scandal). Mass surveillance of the Swiss population by the government for almost a century between 1900 and 1990. There were literally 2.5 million paper-based files on citizens that were meticulously kept; and the whole operation was kept secret until it blew up. Over the decades the database served several aims, from screening out “communists” to being a paid service to companies to screen job applicants.
– [Crypto AG,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG) a Swiss company that sold encyption machines to governments. Unknown to the public, the company was co-owned by by the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and West German Federal Intelligence Service (BND) between the 1970s and 1990s; and they had a master key that allowed them to listen in on their clients’ communications.
Racism is mostly bad
Can someone explain to me why the sudden autoritarian push in places formerly known for personal freedoms?
Stop pretending as if the change is set in stone! NOTHING is happening overnight.
There is so much misinformation thrown around here on reddit.
Here is what currently is happening:
1. The adjustment order for the “VÜPF” and “VD-ÜPF” (monitoring of postal and telecommunications traffic) everyone is talking about at the moment is basically a draft. It is shitty, but it is a DRAFT.
2. Until a few weeks ago, interested people and organisations have been able to voice their inputs and concerns to the responsible state department. The department now needs to analyse this and consider these concerns, voiced by organisations like e.g. Proton / Threema.
3. Then the updated draft will be considered for implementation. While they can start with the implementation without going through congress, this implementation will need approx. 2 years of time to actually be implemented.
4. **Here comes the big “However”:** When the implementation process starts and there are still big concerns, we as the Swiss population have the option via “Volksinitiative” (people’s initiative) to stop this law adjusment via a national vote. Threema already announced that they would spearhead this initiative. It needs 100k signatures to get an initiative to become a national vote. For something important like this it is usually rather simple to collect 100k signatures.
5. There will be a national vote. **As per current standing all political parties from left through right are against this adjustment**. It has very little chance of success to be actually implemented once it gets to the vote.
I hope this clarifies some of the concerns, I think it is always important to have the full picture instead of immediately panicking.
When leaders start to fear the people.
Why is the US the metric here? Plenty of other countries are worse on this.
But you don’t understand, they’re doing this to protect you 😇 /s