La Germania esplora come sostituire la Francia nel progetto di caccia di flagship in Europa

So the Project to replace the Eurofighter and Rafale, the 2 jets that emerged from the last combined fighter program where Germany and France could not agree on something, goes exactly the same way and we will likely see a next Gen Fighter from France, Sweden, and whatever project partners Germany finds as they can’t do it alone

Same story as for the Eurofighter.

Germany want to check boxes on a checklist for what they dream a next-gen fighter should do and wants to make money. France has imperative operational needs, recent combat experience and do not want to lose the know-how to build a combat aircraft.

Germany: 🤬
France: 🤬
Spain: 😴

Assuming Poland finally understood buying American jets is a dead end, they are a natural partner. Same as South Korea. (+ Baltics and the Netherlands ofc)

Politico being a complete and utter rag as usual, it can’t even quote properly its source. Politico writes that France allegedly asked for 80% of the entire program (fighter, drones, cloud) whereas Hartpunkt, its source, clearly state that France allegedly asked for 80% of the fighter side of the program, not of everything. This is not our first rodeo of Politico trying to stoke Franco-german dissent sadly.

I’ve a feeling this project will be massively delayed and by the time the first fighters are releases the order books will be at the bare minimum.

**Berlin is weighing bringing Sweden and the U.K. into the €100B project as tensions simmer with France’s Dassault.**

BERLIN — Berlin’s tensions with Paris over Europe’s flagship €100 billion fighter jet program are pushing Germany to explore how to replace France with Sweden or even the U.K. unless a deal is struck by the end of the year.

Launched in 2017, the Future Combat Air System (FCAS) is designed to replace the Rafale and Eurofighter Typhoon by 2040.

Friction over FCAS — a joint program among France, Germany and Spain — is nothing new, but the scale of the frustration in Berlin signals a danger point for the future of the fighter jet, just as Europe is trying to bolster its defenses to confront the heightened threat from Russia.

According to two people familiar with the discussions, the German defense ministry raised FCAS in talks last week with Airbus, which is responsible for Germany’s part of the jet’s development and construction.

The conversations laid bare Berlin’s discontent with what officials see as a push by French industry for an outsized role in the program. That attitude has pushed the Germans to weigh fallback options, including moving ahead without France.

The company was told that the German government is exploring potential closer cooperation with Sweden or the U.K. — or going it alone with Spain.

German air force officials also briefed Bundestag lawmakers earlier this week, an official in the legislature said.

 “At some point [the German] parliament will have to say: ‘Either we need this aircraft or we don’t,’” Social Democratic lawmaker Andreas Schwarz told POLITICO, warning that production has not even begun and “many unforeseen problems” are still likely to arise.

In July, [Paris and Berlin agreed they would try to iron out divergences in the fall](https://www.politico.eu/article/france-germany-future-combat-air-system-project-fighter-jets-defense/), and decide by the end of the year whether to move FCAS to Phase 2, where companies will have to come up with a demonstrator aircraft. 

# New horizons

Opening the project up to new partners would be a radical shift.

The U.K. is leading the rival Global Combat Air Programme through BAE Systems, giving it a strong industrial base in stealth design and system integration. How it would be possible for BAE to work on two competing projects without a conflict of interests is unclear.

Sweden is no longer a part of GCAP, and could contribute to FCAS through Saab, which builds the Gripen fighter and has long-standing expertise in avionics, sensors and lightweight airframes. Swedish Defense Minister Pål Jonson is in Berlin next week.

The German defense ministry raised FCAS in talks last week with Airbus. | Leon Neal/Getty Images

The deliberations in Berlin underscore the rising anger in Germany over the industrial deadlock between Dassault — in charge of the French part of the jet — and Airbus Defence & Space, over leadership, technology sharing and the division of production work. Spain’s industrial partner is Indra.

FCAS is not simply one aircraft but is envisioned as a “system of systems” called the Next-Generation Weapon System (NGWS), combining a next-generation fighter jet (NGF), drones and a connection to the online cloud.

A trilateral gathering among defense ministers from Spain, Germany and France is scheduled for October. Technical meetings between industry, government officials and arms procurement agencies are regularly taking place despite France’s current political crisis to work on options to present to the ministers. 

Should work with us in Bulgaria I promise our corrupt politicians won’t steal all the money and when the project is due present a pigeon with a firecracker tied to its wing

What is it about Italy, Britain, and Japan that is causing things to go so much smoother in their project? Feels like they are all getting along while FCAS are at each others necks.

It’s getting difficult to see how this project can continue. The French need a carrier variant that has the ability to carry nuclear weapons. This is going to increase cost massively. Germany doesn’t even have a carrier never mind nuclear weapons so has no need for this variant. It’s a terrible look for two of the biggest European countries and close allies being unable to get along on such a important project.

Blablabla, the problem isn’t Germany and France, it is Eric Trappier, CEO of Dassault. That dude suffers so badly from French superiority delusion that he is acting like a little child.

Understandably the German side is looking for alternatives, maybe just to signal to Trappier/the French government to get a grip.

As a German I doubt that Germany will go at it alone or just with Spain. Seems unfeasible. It would make the fighter extraordinary expensive and would delay it probably by decades because both nations and their companies seem to miss core expertise. At that point it probably isn’t worth it. If it comes to that it might be best to just wait it out and buy GCAP or if France succeeds alone a finished FCAS. No reason to shoulder the financial risk of development when you get nothing in return but a discount.

Personally I reject Dassaults demands. I rather see the project crash and burn completely than to pay for a then French 6th gen fighter program. If France and Dassault are so eager to do it all alone then pay for it alone as well. Then you can do whatever the fuck you want. I bet that will do wonders for their already stellar federal budget. There was a reason they wanted partners in the first place.

As for Sweden and UK. I mean you can certainly contract BAE or Saab or any of their suppliers to do work on it if you pay for it but I don’t see how the UK as a government would be interested in any way in investing in FCAS when they already decided on GCAP. Similarly Sweden seems very reluctant to commit to GCAP so why would they now join an even more precarious situation in FCAS? – I don’t see any of this happening.

Germany joining GCAP as a contributor seems also off the table. The program is more or less closed. Oberserver is possible but really I see little to no point in that.

Wouldnt it be more effective to just standardize the european army? God forbid if there really was a world war, the logistics of it couldn’t be sustained. I would have no problem if the eu starts developing on shared platforms

I don’t see how there is a viable alternative partner to France for a variety of reasons and doing a solo 6th gen project is going to be so costly. They have to make peace with France or they just lit a bunch of everyone’s money on fire.

Drone swarms

saab? (gripen)

It’s Eurofighter all over again. Absolutely criminal at a time like this.

However, selfishly, this is a great opportunity for the UK.

I’m available. Got $3,000 US.